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  1. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Thibodaux, LA
    Posts
    1,170
    Originally posted by RoBoTeq
    Carrier is having no more or less difficulties then any other brand on the market, just in a different area at the moment.

    We should all be thankful it is not a perfect world and that equipment is always going to have issues. It is what puts food on our collective tables.
    Aaaahh spoken like a true salesman!
    "Football Season again finally"

  2. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Houston,Tx.
    Posts
    16,107
    Will Carrier survive? heck I am more worried if my guys and me will survive the rest of the summer in this heat and humidity in Houston, I have been in business for over 27 years and I have never had a busier summer than this summer "thank you Lord"
    __________________________________________________ _______________________
    “Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards". - Vernon Law

    "Never let success go to your head, and never let failure go to your heart". - Unknown

  3. #16
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Thibodaux, LA
    Posts
    1,170
    We have been a Bryant dealer since 1999 and have had very little problems. Replaced a few coils under warranty and had two condensers leak that I know of.

    Evaporator coils leaking could also be caused be the region you're in.

    Most of our new systems get installed with 5" media filters which I believe helps keep the contaminants in the air off the surface of the coils. (with out going into detail)I was told by an engineer that most evaporator coil leaks are from the outside in.

    [Edited by bluetooth751 on 08-05-2005 at 09:46 AM]
    "Football Season again finally"

  4. #17
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    697
    Perhaps United Technologies will someday sell Carrier to the Chinese. Whether that will occur before or after the Chinese buy Goodman, American Standard, and Lennox remains to be seen.

  5. #18
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    4,970
    Im sure they will survive. Its not like any brand out there doesnt have their problems. It just runs in cycles. The only problem is that once they come up with a piece of equipment and get all the bugs out of it so it has very few problems, they design something new. The only answer to the problem is come up with a great piece of equipment THEN FIRE ALL THE ENGINEERS. You dont need them setting around all day redesigning something that does work just so they have something to do to justify their job. Oh ya and keep the parts manufactures lobyists away from them getting them to use totally differant parts on every unit so that hvac companies have to have a huge inventory of parts on their shelves , that they will never use.

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    CA
    Posts
    238
    I am with the original poster. Last week I found 2 condensers 38TKB024 - leaking from the top loop on the Condensing coil. And they were 5 and 6 years old.

    There was an Carrier Evap. coil 8 days ago again leaking. And it is only 5 years and 1 month old. Customer screamed because it was out of 5 years warranty.

    I've never seen this with ICP (which btw seems to me to be a very durable machine).

    Lennox is notorious with their stupid filter/strainer mesh which after 5 years starts clogging the orifice. Do not recommend 'em.

    York/Luxaire is my favorite one. Quite and reliable.

    Trane XL14 is bigger than my minivan, "what kind of a monster is that " ... once a customer asked me.

    As the robot guy said - they all keep us fed.

  7. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Kansas City
    Posts
    1,482
    These are machines folks and they break. Whenever I start *****ing about a manufacturer's recurring problem, it gets engineered out and I find another brand to complain about. Most brands warranty liberally when a known problem is found and I think we should reward that effort with a little bit of loyalty.

  8. #21

    Arrow So true...

    Originally posted by RoBoTeq
    A major factor of evaporator coil leaks is an improper evacuation during installation. There is nothing that any manufacturer can do about controlling the final manufacturing of any HVAC system, which is done by the technicians at the job site.

    If you are running into a rash of leaking coils in one particular area, it just may be the installation practices of the installers in that area.
    This i sso true, it's our job in the field to open the front of all those coils up spead the feeder tubes, make sure their not rubbing agaisnt each otehr, tie wrap the crap out of them... Or thier going to rub holes in each other the copper is so thin...
    AllTemp Heating & Cooling

  9. #22
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
    Posts
    68,962
    Originally posted by ed janowiak
    Originally posted by RoBoTeq
    A major factor of evaporator coil leaks is an improper evacuation during installation.
    Can you go into a little more detail on that one? I do not understand how not properly evacuating a system can cause a leak. But am very interested in the concept .
    There are many technicians who are simply misunderstanding the reason for evacuation of systems before installing refrigerant.

    Many technicians feel that by evacuating a lineset and coil for a set time period is all that is required. Most feel that even if a little moisture does remain in the system it will be taken care of by the filter/drier.

    What is not understood is that there are many brazed joints in coils that will trap molecules of moisture. Evacuation needs to be given time to allow all of the moisture molecules to evaporate. Worse, when we have refrigerant oil in the existing lines of a change out system, that oil will have soaked up as much moisture as was in the air that entered those lines when the lines were opened to the atmosphere. That moisture takes time to boil off with the lowered pressure/temperature ratio even of a deep vacuum.

    Only if a lineset and coil hold below 1,000 microns for at least 15 minutes after the valves have shut off and the vacuum pump shut down, only then can we be certain that there is no significant moisture left in the system to cause problems. If you are not using a micron gauge for evacuations you are at best guessing what is being done.

    OK, lets say the proper evacuation was not done. There are tiny molecules of moisture stuck in the joints of the coil. These molecules of moisture are going to over time attack the copper of the coil and eventually eat pin holes through the coil.

    Want to see proof? Of course you do Take a coil that has developed a leak and cut a few sections near joints. If you see green at the joint, that is where the moisture was. Sometimes the situation can be bad enough to tint the refrigerant oil green with the copper oxide that has been eroded away.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  10. #23
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    SW FL
    Posts
    6,368

    Talking PRO Advice

    Originally posted by RoBoTeq
    That moisture takes time to boil off with the lowered pressure/temperature ratio even of a deep vacuum.

    Only if a lineset and coil hold below 1,000 microns for AT LEAST 15 minutes after the valves have shut off and the vacuum pump shut down, ONLY THEN can we be certain that there is no significant moisture left in the system to cause problems. If you are not using a micron gauge for evacuations you are at best guessing what is being done.

    RoBoTek should market a "Truck {bumper} Sticker" to remind All Techs on thorough instllation procedure and proper set-up.

    __EVACUATE to 1,000 Micron
    ..and HOLD for 15 Minutes__
    __: RoboTek

    __, VERY WELL STATED!
    Designer Dan
    It's Not Rocket Science, But It is SCIENCE with "Some Art". ___ ___ K EEP I T S IMPLE & S INCERE

    Define the Building Envelope and Perform a Detailed Load Calc: It's ALL About Windows and Make-up Air Requirements. Know Your Equipment Capabilities

  11. #24
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    SW FL
    Posts
    6,368

    Re: PRO Advice

    Originally posted by dan sw fl
    Originally posted by RoBoTeq
    That moisture takes time to boil off with the lowered pressure/temperature ratio even of a deep vacuum.

    Only if a lineset and coil hold below 1,000 microns for AT LEAST 15 minutes after the valves have shut off and the vacuum pump shut down, ONLY THEN can we be certain that there is no significant moisture left in the system to cause problems. If you are not using a micron gauge for evacuations you are at best guessing what is being done.

    RoBoTek should market a
    "Truck {bumper} Sticker"
    to remind All Techs on thorough installation procedure
    and proper set-up.

    __EVACUATE to < 1,000 Microns
    ..and HOLD for 15 Minutes__
    __: RoboTek

    RObin BOyd, VERY WELL STATED!
    Designer Dan
    It's Not Rocket Science, But It is SCIENCE with "Some Art". ___ ___ K EEP I T S IMPLE & S INCERE

    Define the Building Envelope and Perform a Detailed Load Calc: It's ALL About Windows and Make-up Air Requirements. Know Your Equipment Capabilities

  12. #25
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
    Posts
    68,962
    Well, if we are going to do a bumper sticker we need to get creative. Howzabout;

    "SUCK IT DRY AND HOLD IT FOR 15 MINUTES"

    or....

    "Evacuation Sucks!...That's the Point!"
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  13. #26
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Central Kentucky
    Posts
    6,248
    Robin,I agree with what you say about the field installation & improper evacuation contributing to leaks.

    The part that concerns me is with packaged equipment which has never had the refrigeration side opened up still developing leaks in the coils.

    This looks to me as though it would be on the manufacturers end,wether or not it is due to improper evacuation or formicary corrosion is a guess.

    I do know that we have expierienced this multiple times with packaged water source heat pump equipment that has never been opened up,not exclusive to one manufacturer.
    Have you set up a Google alert for Carbon Monoxide yet?
    Click here to find out how.

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