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  1. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Westlake, Ohio
    Posts
    2,492
    You are certainly between a rock and a hard place and I understand. You do provide great information here. Just trying to say things aren't always as bad as the government wants us to think or other authorities.

    My specialty is not IAQ but then maybe it is when it comes to carbon monoxide. That is why I constantly try to learn from others like yourself. I am not afraid to be stupid when I don't know, and I never let myself become gullible just because someone else said so. I research everyday looking for answers.

    I have spent over 25 years going against manufacturers, codes, etc., because when nothing they say or write actually works in the field, there is a problem. I keep being told the only reason I keep finding problems is because I am looking for them.

    Everything has a good side and a bad side, but when it comes to ROS, Ozone etc., all most see is the negative. And wow, a little checking shows that it might not be as bad as some officials want us to believe.

    I enjoy your posts and if you can find the book "One Minute Cure" on the internet, it is kind of radical. It is written by Madison Cavanaugh.

    Anyway, always a good conversation.
    captain CO

  2. #15
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    907
    I figured out the following:
    Both O2 and O2- are free radicals; radicals can be quite stable, like O2. Ions can be free radicals, but free radicals are not all ions and can be molecules. So, the explanation has to be that if a PCO emits energetic radicals other than hydroxyl radicals, that can be stable long enough to reach someone's lungs but unstable enough to cause random chemical reactions, then that is a concern. Focusing only on the hydroxyl radicals is a red herring. Generic ions don't give rise to radicals on their own (e.g., without a source of energy like UV light) unless they already are radicals themselves.


    Quote Originally Posted by genesis View Post
    Global Plasma Solutions’ bi-polar ionization generator creates cold plasma
    discharge that consists of positive ions (H+) and negative ions (O2
    –) from water vapor in the air. These ions have the property of clustering around microparticles and gases, and thus, they surround harmful substances such as airborne mold, virus, bacteria, volatile organic compounds and allergens. At that point, a chemical reaction occurs on the cell membrane surface and they are transformed into OH radicals, a powerfully active but
    unstable material, which robs the harmful substance of a hydrogen atom (H). As a result, they are inactivated by severing the protein on the cell membrane, opening holes. The OH radicals instantly bond with the removed hydrogen (H), forming water vapor (H2O), and return to the air.
    http://www.globalplasmasolutions.com...asma%20Kill.pd
    -If you won't turn it on then nothing else matters.

  3. #16
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Lubbock Texas
    Posts
    773
    Thought I would bump this, I got a phone call from a very distinguished gentleman the other day from the message board here discussing this very subject.
    The premise of ventilation is that the OA is clean or of sufficient quality to be used for dilution. Traditional ventilation is somewhat being threatened by the fact that the EPA is changing the requirements for outdoor air quality which is creating non-attainment zones in what is now becoming a significant portion of the country. That means that buildings in those areas will need to clean up the OA before they bring it into the building.
    www.genesisair.com
    Genesis Air Inc.

  4. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    In a boiler room
    Posts
    7,157
    Quote Originally Posted by genesis View Post
    Thought I would bump this, I got a phone call from a very distinguished gentleman the other day from the message board here discussing this very subject.
    Interesting, we just had a salesman here trying to get us to sell the ActiveTek.

    What was he disgruntled about?

  5. #18
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    126
    [QUOTE=genesis;10148802]Global Plasma Solutions’ bi-polar ionization generator creates cold plasma
    discharge
    that consists of positive ions (H+) and negative ions (O2
    –) from water vapor in the air. These ions have the property of clustering around microparticles and gases, and thus, they surround harmful substances such as airborne mold, virus, bacteria, volatile organic compounds and allergens. At that point, a chemical reaction occurs on the cell membrane surface and they are transformed into OH radicals, a powerfully active but
    unstable material, which robs the harmful substance of a hydrogen atom (H). As a result, they are inactivated by severing the protein on the cell membrane, opening holes. The OH radicals instantly bond with the removed hydrogen (H), forming water vapor (H2O), and return to the air.
    http://www.globalplasmasolutions.com...asma%20Kill.pd[/QUOTE

    I am confused. Genesis defends cold plasma as this futuristic technology while bad mouthing ozone as harmful and unsafe. The internet is full of documentation like this....what am I missing here?

    Beware of other methods of ozone production such as cold plasma, and UV light. These methods produce insufficient and unstable ozone outputs, with cold plasma producing ozone at 45ug/ml(some up to 65ug/ml) or less, and UV producing ozone at a maximum of 1 or 2 ug/ml.

    Cold plasma
    In the cold plasma method, pure oxygen gas is exposed to a plasma created by dielectric barrier discharge. The diatomic oxygen is split into single atoms, which then recombine in triplets to form ozone. Cold plasma machines utilize pure oxygen as the input source, and produce a maximum concentration of about 5% ozone. They produce far greater quantities of ozone in a given space of time compared to ultraviolet production. However, because cold plasma ozone generators are very expensive, and still require occasional maintenance, they are found less frequently than the previous two types. The discharges manifest as filamentary transfer of electrons (micro discharges) in a gap between two electrodes. In order to evenly distribute the micro discharges, a dielectric insulator must be used to separate the metallic electrodes and to prevent arcing. Some cold plasma units also have the capability of producing short-lived allotropes of oxygen which include O4, O5, O6, O7, etc. These anions are even more reactive than ordinary O3.

    The first cold plasma ozone generator was designed and constructed by Nikola Tesla. Plasmafire International, headed by Saul Pressman, re-engineered the first cold plasma generator suitable for therapeutic use by studying an old Tesla model. Today's true cold plasma ozone generators utilize pure oxygen as the input source, and produce a maximum concentration of about 5% ozone.

    The discharges manifest as filamentary transfer of electrons (micro discharges) in a gap between two electrodes. In order to evenly distribute the micro discharges, a dielectric insulator must be used to separate the metallic electrodes and to prevent arcing.

    Some cold plasma units also have the capability of producing short-lived allotropes of oxygen which include O4, O5, O6, O7, etc. These species are even more reactive than ordinary O3.



  6. #19
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Lubbock Texas
    Posts
    773
    [QUOTE=cleanair;12531431]
    Quote Originally Posted by genesis View Post
    Global Plasma Solutions’ bi-polar ionization generator creates cold plasma
    discharge
    that consists of positive ions (H+) and negative ions (O2
    –) from water vapor in the air. These ions have the property of clustering around microparticles and gases, and thus, they surround harmful substances such as airborne mold, virus, bacteria, volatile organic compounds and allergens. At that point, a chemical reaction occurs on the cell membrane surface and they are transformed into OH radicals, a powerfully active but
    unstable material, which robs the harmful substance of a hydrogen atom (H). As a result, they are inactivated by severing the protein on the cell membrane, opening holes. The OH radicals instantly bond with the removed hydrogen (H), forming water vapor (H2O), and return to the air.
    http://www.globalplasmasolutions.com...asma%20Kill.pd[/QUOTE

    I am confused. Genesis defends cold plasma as this futuristic technology while bad mouthing ozone as harmful and unsafe. The internet is full of documentation like this....what am I missing here?

    Beware of other methods of ozone production such as cold plasma, and UV light. These methods produce insufficient and unstable ozone outputs, with cold plasma producing ozone at 45ug/ml(some up to 65ug/ml) or less, and UV producing ozone at a maximum of 1 or 2 ug/ml.

    Cold plasma
    In the cold plasma method, pure oxygen gas is exposed to a plasma created by dielectric barrier discharge. The diatomic oxygen is split into single atoms, which then recombine in triplets to form ozone. Cold plasma machines utilize pure oxygen as the input source, and produce a maximum concentration of about 5% ozone. They produce far greater quantities of ozone in a given space of time compared to ultraviolet production. However, because cold plasma ozone generators are very expensive, and still require occasional maintenance, they are found less frequently than the previous two types. The discharges manifest as filamentary transfer of electrons (micro discharges) in a gap between two electrodes. In order to evenly distribute the micro discharges, a dielectric insulator must be used to separate the metallic electrodes and to prevent arcing. Some cold plasma units also have the capability of producing short-lived allotropes of oxygen which include O4, O5, O6, O7, etc. These anions are even more reactive than ordinary O3.

    The first cold plasma ozone generator was designed and constructed by Nikola Tesla. Plasmafire International, headed by Saul Pressman, re-engineered the first cold plasma generator suitable for therapeutic use by studying an old Tesla model. Today's true cold plasma ozone generators utilize pure oxygen as the input source, and produce a maximum concentration of about 5% ozone.

    The discharges manifest as filamentary transfer of electrons (micro discharges) in a gap between two electrodes. In order to evenly distribute the micro discharges, a dielectric insulator must be used to separate the metallic electrodes and to prevent arcing.

    Some cold plasma units also have the capability of producing short-lived allotropes of oxygen which include O4, O5, O6, O7, etc. These species are even more reactive than ordinary O3.


    Your taking stuff our of context. The Cold Plasma stuff came directly off their website on how they produce ions. Strangly enough Global Plasma passed UL867 Certification for ozone production, a safety standard for electrostatic air cleaners.

    There are many different types of ROS ozone is just one. All chemical sterilants are designed to kill microorganisms and chemicals that kill microbes are hazardous to humans because of the shared biochemical design shared by all life on this planet. While oxygen is essential for life, the formation of partially reduced (or reactive) oxygen species (ROS) imposes a threat to cells. Normal cellular homeostasis therefore involves a delicate balance between the rate and amount of ROS production and the rate of oxidant elimination. Oxidative stress can be defined as the pathogenic outcome of the over production of ROS that overwhelms the cellular antioxidant capacity. Oxygen free radicals and their metabolites, collectively described as reactive oxygen species (ROS), have been implicated in the pathogenesis of many diseases. The pulmonary system is particularly vulnerable to ROS-induced injury because of its continuous exposure to toxic pollutants from a wide variety of sources in the ambient air.

    Lungs are vulnerable to endogenous and exogenous sources of ROS insults. They are well equipped with antioxidant defenses to negate normal oxidative insults. However, when the oxidative defenses are overwhelmed by formidable oxidant influx, injury results. ROS are frequently associated with many pulmonary diseases. They are increasingly being recognized as mediators of early cell injury in lung diseases.
    The premise of ventilation is that the OA is clean or of sufficient quality to be used for dilution. Traditional ventilation is somewhat being threatened by the fact that the EPA is changing the requirements for outdoor air quality which is creating non-attainment zones in what is now becoming a significant portion of the country. That means that buildings in those areas will need to clean up the OA before they bring it into the building.
    www.genesisair.com
    Genesis Air Inc.

  7. #20
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    126
    Quote: "Strangly enough Global Plasma passed UL867 Certification for ozone production, a safety standard for electrostatic air cleaners."

    Nothing strange about it. The product that passed UL867 is a two pound ionizer for residential use that basically does nothing but emit a minimul amount of negative ions from the tips of the unit. This is 'snake oil' at its best and what little particulate it charges ends up sticking to the duct within inches of the installation.

  8. #21
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Miami, Fl
    Posts
    42

    I have one and most of my family does too. Try it and then see for yourself

    Quote Originally Posted by cleanair View Post
    Quote: "Strangly enough Global Plasma passed UL867 Certification for ozone production, a safety standard for electrostatic air cleaners."

    Nothing strange about it. The product that passed UL867 is a two pound ionizer for residential use that basically does nothing but emit a minimul amount of negative ions from the tips of the unit. This is 'snake oil' at its best and what little particulate it charges ends up sticking to the duct within inches of the installation.
    This GPS 2400 product works excellent and removes so much dust I see large clumps of dust on my filter. My Grandmother claims she breathes better in her home and cooking odors are drastically reduced. The air feels so clean that my wife doesn't use air fresheners or candles anymore.

    Try it and then see for yourself.

  9. #22
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Miami, Fl
    Posts
    42
    Name:  are you searching for IAQ.jpg
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  10. #23
    What is this?

    A cheap advertisement for a bad product.

    Sickening!

  11. #24
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Float'N Vally, MS
    Posts
    1,841
    Actually you are wrong. I just researched a case with one of my distributors that used these in a school in So. La.

    Last year they had a bat problem inside of the wall of one of the classrooms
    Tore the walls out replaced the insulation and cleaned up everything. After the repair the smell was still there. The school system installed one of these in the effected system and the smell went completely away in a couple of days.

    This is with a trusted distributor who has used this in smoke areas with great success. I have projects that I am looking into these for.
    Life is too short, Behappy!
    TFMM

  12. #25
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    south louisiana
    Posts
    3,231
    what is title of article?
    link brings me to page that is having problems.
    if you'll post the title, I can do a site search for it.

    thanks in advance.
    The cure of the part should not be attempted without the cure of the whole. ~Plato

  13. #26
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Float'N Vally, MS
    Posts
    1,841
    Quote Originally Posted by energy_rater_La View Post
    what is title of article?
    link brings me to page that is having problems.
    if you'll post the title, I can do a site search for it.

    thanks in advance.
    http://www.globalplasmasolutions.com/
    Rater contact A of BR (Clay Lloyd)
    That's who I have been talking to....
    Life is too short, Behappy!
    TFMM

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