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  1. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Rochester, MN
    Posts
    5,304
    I would have the dealer check the dip switches to make sure they are set up right.


    I have the TUY80r9V3w4 w/ 2Ton A/C, set at 400cfm/ton and I don't hear it running unless I am right in the utilty room next to it...

    I agree with the other guys, It has been a hot summer in most area this year, and cause the system to run more.

    in A/C mode, the blower only runs in single speed on a single speed compressor.. W/ Comfort-R on, the blower starts off slow for a min, then ramps up next speed, then after 7 min, goes to it's set speed, and stays there till there is no call of cool.

    In heating on 2-stage, yes the blower will go from one speed to another when the t-stat calls for 1st or 2nd stage.

    Old yeller made a point bout "Run less"... Mine runs pretty much steady all afternoon and keeps temp on a hot afternoon.

  2. #15
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    435
    Sounds like a configuration problem either with the thermo setup or the switches in the airhandler.

  3. #16
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Posts
    460
    Originally posted by old yeller
    By the way- claim number 3. "It will run less" is one of the most rediculous things I've heard yet on this site.
    Hee. Hee. I still argue with people about this. Actually, more running time = more comfort and less cost, as long as the system is running properly and can meet the cooling/heating demand (e.g. is the right size)

    Other than the blower (which cost pennies to run if it's variable speed), it doesn't cost any more -- and in fact can cost a good deal less -- to run a 2-ton air conditioner on a 100% duty cycle cycle when a 4-ton unit of the same SEER runs only 50% of the time. And if the system is short-cycling it never reaches its rated SEER anyway.

    Moreover, the house with the 2-ton unit will be drier, be quieter because the blower speed is lower, and have more uniform temperatures because the air is better circulated.

    The same thing is basically true of a 50K BTU furnace versus a 100K unit.


    [Edited by JoeSix on 08-03-2005 at 03:06 PM]

  4. #17
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Wilmington, NC
    Posts
    66
    This may be redundant, but you need to check the variable speed set up to make sure all the switches are correct for the application / equipment. You need to check the ductwork to make sure it is properly sized (returns especially as it will affect the performance of the equipment and noise. I replaced a 21 year old carrier package heat pump a year ago with a Trane XL1400 variable speed package unit. My peak electric bills on the coast of NC were $150 / month on a leaky 1600 sq ft house with a 2-1/2 ton system. My highest electric bill was $100.00 last month. (one of the hottest July's on record), where the previous July was $150. Thing is, my system is properly sized, both duct & unit (manual D & J) and the comfort r setup is correct. I have sold 200 variable speed system changeouts in the last 3 years and have never had a complaint on noise or cost of operation.


  5. #18
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Portage
    Posts
    909

    Talking

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    In addition, do you know if a load calculation was done prior to installation, or was it an estimate?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Did they pull out test equipment? No. Does that make it an estimate?

    They did perform a temp reduction check upon completion by sticking thermometers in the intake and output ducts at the unit; 20 degree difference.
    ------------------------------------------------------------
    oh yeah delta-T thats all you really need to ensure sizing and efficiency.

    [Edited by 1972torino on 08-03-2005 at 03:56 PM]
    I don’t always drink beer, but when I do I prefer Dos-Equis. I am the most interesting man in the world. Stay thirsty my friends.

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    4H: Hot, Humid Houston H.O.
    Posts
    3,304

    Comparing bills is very tough

    It's devilishly tough to compare bills from one year to another, and therefore devilishly tough for Mr. Homeowner to know whether something has actually saved money. Confusion reigns but I will try to clear up at least some of it. I am a homeowner too and used to work for a utility where we dealt with this type of question (the typical worker in such a department has a masters degree in math).

    You have been asked by another poster whether your home usage is higher because of weather conditions -- this is an excellent question. You might try looking up historical weather info on a service such as "Weather Underground" which I use:
    http://www.wunderground.com/weatherstation/index.asp

    Try filling in your location at the top and see if you can get a year-to-year comparision.

    Also very important to know: Look at your actual electric bills year to year and find out whether your KWH (Kilowatt-Hour) usage is actually higher, or whether your price per KWH went up. Most areas have seen rate increases so it just might be that your new Trane is doing as advertised (tho I am skeptical). Look carefully at the meter read dates so you can compare weather in the correct interval -- it will rarely be as simple as the 1st of each month.

    It still will be *very* worthwhile to share your concerns with the installing company which sold you that AC, they will surely check over their installation and might have some "improvements" to make in their work.

    Best of luck -- P.Student

  7. #20
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Office and warehouse in both Crystal River & New Port Richey ,FL
    Posts
    18,836
    I'd say somethingis wrong,could be several things or a combination of things.

    We gaurantee savings during the first year and the ones that don't save have one or more of these problems.

    1.Bad duct system,high static

    2.Bad TXV metering device

    3.Large duct leaks

    4. Improper setup of dip switche/stat

    5.3M filters or other overly restrictive filters

    6.Once and only once they ran it so much colder ,they didn't save.

    If they they can't find the problem ,give them some time,then call TRANE,the distributor in your area will check it out and find the problem.

  8. #21
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Ocean County, N.J.
    Posts
    480
    Richardf, going on what you said, which basically was that you've been generally satisfied for 15 years, there are 3 things taking place. The first is easy. The price of electricity increased. Whithout looking at, there are 2 other causes: it's either not set up right, or it's not compatable with your duct work. If sized properly you've bought a nice system.

    [Edited by jack david on 08-03-2005 at 06:30 PM]

  9. #22
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Ft.Worth,Tx
    Posts
    4,584

    Angry

    I see this more and more a/c salesman just selling a product and telling customer's about there savings and forgetting to do there homework.

    plenums
    ductwork
    line-set
    load calculation

    No they just tie-in to existing ductwork, up size the unit and sell the customer a real nice system that won't work..

    I tried to tell my boss at my last place of employment about this very sitution in our industry, he just said it would work.
    410A with existing line-set
    old disconnect/don't bother to check breakers either
    tie-in existing duct
    same size return for variable drive
    two-stage compressor's with no load done.

    I don't work for him anymore..

    Customer's do have a way to get there systems right, contact State Licensing-Regulations or local mechanical inspector's in there town...
    "Everyday above ground, is a good day".
    "But everyday that you have made a difference in someones life, may insure you stay above ground a little longer".<aircooled>

  10. #23
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    in a house, Appomattox, Va.
    Posts
    3,308
    30-50% is a pretty generic figure. No one can know exactly how much you'll save, but....


    In some cases hi eff equipment cost more to run due to poor ductwork. A 14 seer will perform like a 7 seer if the duct is in poor shape.


    My last 3 mos elec- $35, $90 ,$124, very big range due to the heat lately. Radio meter so no guestimating.
    Col 3:23


    questions asked, answers received, ignorance abated

  11. #24
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Posts
    460
    Originally posted by billygoat22
    In some cases hi eff equipment cost more to run due to poor ductwork. A 14 seer will perform like a 7 seer if the duct is in poor shape.
    I see this stated occasionally, but don't see why it would be the case and in fact personally had a similar situation.

    A DC variable speed blower is most efficient under low static resistance, but can move almost twice as air through the same ductwork as a standard blower and still use less electricity as long as you're with in the limits of the blower.

    If you're meeting the airflow requirements of the system, why would you lose that much SEER?

    I had an installer put in a Lennox G60V and HS26 in my 1500 sq ft townhouse several years ago to replace the original builders grade equipment. The return space is definitely too small (not quite even 2 square feet) although the supplies are OK, and they put in a 2 ton unit when a 1.5 would be the right size (although too small for that air handler). My total peak electric bill dropped 25% afterwards from $60-70 in the hottest months to more like $45-50.

  12. #25
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    in a house, Appomattox, Va.
    Posts
    3,308
    The seer effect is due to loss of conditioned air from ducts.

    It would be like driving a 40 mph car, but the gas line leaks fuel on the road. The engine and drivetrain get 40 mph, but the road soaks up 10 mpg, so you may as well be driving a 30 mph car.

    Or you could fix the fuel leak, and get the full mpg out the car.
    Col 3:23


    questions asked, answers received, ignorance abated

  13. #26
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Posts
    460
    Originally posted by billygoat22
    The seer effect is due to loss of conditioned air from ducts.
    Ah, so you're talking about duct leakage versus a basically sound system which has too much static pressure.

    In my case, both the airhandler and all the ductwork were in conditioned space, so (within limits) I wouldn't think duct leakage would be as much of an issue.

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