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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    4
    We received 3 estimates for the same Trane system consisting of a TUD100R9V5, 4TTX4042A100, RXC054S; XL14i AC unit, XV80 heater, Honeywell F200 filter, Honeywell 265 humidifier. This $7500 system replaced a 15 year old system with an 8 SEER rating. I received another estimate for a 10 SEER system comparable to what I had for $3000.

    I was told by 3 Trane people...

    1. energy bill would be reduced by 30-50%

    2. it would be quieter

    3. It would run less

    While this starts with a low speed mode it seems every single time it switches to full. It never stays in low; even at night when the temperature difference is very low.

    I was provided two digital thermostats. The first time this was set to 72 since that is the temp we like. Within hours my house dropped to 65-66 degrees. I use an infrared temp gauge and measure a number of areas in the house plus a thermometer in central location. When the wall directly behind the thermostat reads 72 the first one said 76 and the current one says 79. This appears to be a viable method as this was tested in another home that used a digital thermostat and they agreed. The mercury thermometer and infrared thermometer agree with each other within 1-2 degrees.

    We have received our first bill and it actually was $10 higher than last year. At a 30% savings it should have dropped by about $70. At 50% savings it should have dropped by $115.

    My issue is simply that none of the claims have come true even though I spent the additional $4000. It is just as noisy, runs just as much and costs me about the same in energy which were the main concerns anyway.

    I purchased this expensive system because of everything I had been hearing for years on end on the radio home fix it shows. Naturally I feel hood winked but am certainly open to the fact that I may have a unique situation.

  2. #2

    No prices

    But sounds like it gone to take a long time to recover the cost, might as well call the salesman back to check it out,

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Posts
    962
    Thanks for sharing that with us. Sometimes more isn't better.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Portage
    Posts
    909
    I am in NC and I can tell you that the temps. are higher this year than the last two years. In addition, the cost of electricity has gone up, so before you start jumping to conclusions and defaming your installing company, call them and discuss your issues, and request they send out a service tech to check out the system. FYI, take your infrared thermometer and use it to play with the dog or cat, as that is about all that it's good for. ONce your system has been checked out, get a copy of the report and post it here, including all temp and pressure measurements. In addition, do you know if a load calculation was done prior to installation, or was it an estimate?
    I don’t always drink beer, but when I do I prefer Dos-Equis. I am the most interesting man in the world. Stay thirsty my friends.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Posts
    460
    I have a similar system (XV80 with variable speed trane furnace) and could offer a few comments:

    1. There may be a problem with the thermostats. If you have the temp set to 72 and the theromstat is properly located (in the middle of the house near a return), then the thermostat should be within 1-2 degrees of the actual temperature.

    So, you may be paying more to keep the house colder because of the thermostats.

    (My choice for that system would be a White Rogers 1F81 since you have a two stage furnace).

    2. The "low speed" mode you observe at the beginning of the cycle is what Trane calls "Comfort-R" and it just allows the A/C coil to get colder for better humidity removal.

    If the system runs longer than 7.5 minutes, it will *always* ramp up to high and run that way until the cooling demand is satisfied. You have a two-stage furnace though, which if properly sized (doubtful given they sold you a 100K BTU furnace in the Atlanta area unless your house is gargantuan) will actually switch back and forth between high and low on very cold days.

    3. I'm not sure what the blower capacity is for that unit. Very often these things come from the factory on HIGH and need to be adjusted. That air-handler will left you specify the number of CFM per ton you want (400 is typical) as the tonnage of your outdoor unit.

    That looks like a 3 1/2 coil but I would have to double-check, so you probably have a 3 ton A/C unit. That's a big furnace (especially for Atlanta) -- I don't know if it has a 3 or 4 ton blower but I could check on Trane's web site.

    Get the guys back out to check things out.


  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    1,200

    Apples to cumquats……….

    “We have received our first bill and it actually was $10 higher than last year. At a 30% savings it should have dropped by about $70. At 50% savings it should have dropped by $115.”

    What was the average temperature for your area for the same period last year? Most of the eastern seaboard saw much lower than norm temps last season with average to slightly above this season so far.


    To compare last years utility bill to this years is like comparing the MPG going up the mountain to going down.

    Ed J

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    3,157
    We have received our first bill and it actually was $10 higher than last year. At a 30% savings it should have dropped by about $70. At 50% savings it should have dropped by $115.


    ok so what you would like us all to believe is that besides the AC you and your family used the same amount of electricity this year as you did last year? you had the same lights on for the same amount of time? You used the same appliances for the same amount of time each day?

    with all of the variables involved in your electricial usuage, what made you decide that the new AC is the problem?
    How about that new spa? that electric oven?

    would the oat have been the same this year as last, was the compressor running on the high stage all of the time?

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Posts
    460
    Whoa, that furnace has a 5-ton blower. Do you know what size air-conditioner you have (the full model number off the condenser would do the trick).

    Anyway, if you think it's too noisy, then it may still be set for more air-flow than you need. It should be very quiet during the Comfort-R stage, when it only runs at about 60% of normal speed.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    4
    so before you start jumping to conclusions and defaming your installing company
    ...that is why I am here... Please note I did not provide any names, just equipment for assistance.

    FYI, take your infrared thermometer and use it to play with the dog or cat, as that is about all that it's good for.
    Hmm... any other comments? Seems to have worked quite well in numerous applications unrelated to this topic.

    ONce your system has been checked out, get a copy of the report and post it here, including all temp and pressure measurements.
    Is there an industry standard name for this report? Shouldn’t this have been done when they completed the system?

    In addition, do you know if a load calculation was done prior to installation, or was it an estimate?
    Did they pull out test equipment? No. Does that make it an estimate?

    They did perform a temp reduction check upon completion by sticking thermometers in the intake and output ducts at the unit; 20 degree difference.

    There may be a problem with the thermostats. If you have the temp set to 72 and the theromstat is properly located (in the middle of the house near a return), then the thermostat should be within 1-2 degrees of the actual temperature.
    That’s what I thought...

    So, you may be paying more to keep the house colder because of the thermostats.
    I didn’t think so since I reset the temp based on two different thermometers. We are comfortable. The point is we were comfortable for the last 15 years and the old system needed repairs or replacement to return us back to that.

    If the system runs longer than 7.5 minutes, it will *always* ramp up to high
    Right. Is must be rare that it would run only 7 minutes and correct the temp?

    As for the rest this a 3.5 ton system.

    Get the guys back out to check things out.
    oh... I will... you can count on it... just trying to get my ducks in row so I know as much or more than they do before they arrive.

    I will also pull our old records and compare energy rates and kilowatts used.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Posts
    460
    Yes, you're right in that A/C rarely satisfies the cooling demand in 7 minutes, so they'll always ramp up.

    Since you have a 5 ton blower (based on the TUD model number you supplied) and only a 3.5 ton A/C unit, get them to double-check the blower speed to be sure they have set the dip-switches properly.

    I have a TUD080R9V3K (with a 2.5 ton condenser) and I can't even hear either blower or the air-flow through the ductwork in cooling mode.


    [Edited by JoeSix on 08-03-2005 at 01:23 PM]

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    83
    Plus keep in mind when they say 30-50% savings they do not mean off your entire electric bill, they mean off of your energy bill (AC/Heat). There is a difference.

    Here in FL our bill for July was $60.00 more this year then last and we did nothing different then last year. Reasons for the higher bill 1-Higher rates 2-Higher avg. temps 3- Much less rain and cloud cover in July (I feel this is the biggest factor)

    Felix

    [Edited by nyrfan on 08-03-2005 at 01:32 PM]

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    3,157
    This $7500 system replaced a 15 year old system with an 8 SEER rating. I received another estimate for a 10 SEER system comparable to what I had for $3000.
    ----------------------------------------------

    even though I spent the additional $4000. It is just as noisy, runs just as much and costs
    ----------------------------------------------

    The site rules dont really matter as long as you get an answer, correct?

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Dallas
    Posts
    179
    Sounds like a bad install. I have the EXACT same system except smaller (2.5 ton) and I am very pleased with it's performance.

    By the way- claim number 3. "It will run less" is one of the most rediculous things I've heard yet on this site. Did they re-build your house and make it more efficient? An HVAC system can only blow air that is so cold. The heat gain in your house determined if it needs to run more or not, unless it was oversized, in which case it would run for less time more often- and would be again, a bad install.

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