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Thread: Intake/exhaust

  1. #40
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
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    Eastern PA
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    68,962
    Originally posted by jultzya
    Originally posted by dx
    But it could have been backwards (swapped intake/exhaust) and I may have missed it. Since it's worked flawlessly all these years, I am only curious from the viewpoint of "should I ever hire this HVAC contractor again?"
    Everybody screws up once in a while, it's how they handle and rectify the situation that would answer that question for me (if, I was in your shoes).
    I consider this a perfect answer to the question posed. If we had more builder/contractors as aware of the work being done by their subs as dx is, we would have more consistantly, properly installed HVAC systems.

    Dx, there are a lot of installations out there that have been working despite their improper install. I hear it all of the time; "well, it's been working right all of this time so why should it be changed?" The answer to that of course is; "No, it has not been working right, it has been working despite its wrong installation." Some procedures will not show a problem in 99% of the applications and so that 1%er seems to be unique.

    Bottom line; install as per the manufacturers installation literature and you will always be within any local code.

    Now! Let's not forget concentric kits which seem to defy some of the physics points I have noted, but in reality are a bit of a different animal where the thermaldynamic laws of physics simply behave differently.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  2. #41
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    171
    Jultzya, I'm in favor of giving people a chance to fix their mistakes. Unfortunately for you guys, hvac is not like buying a pound of spoiled cheese. A lot of hvac installation errors will slowly kill something and are not readily apparent until a failure well past the warranty. Corrosion from insufficient vacuum comes to mind.
    A good hvac contractor should have and follow procedures and checklists that insure everything is done correctly. The time to fix the error is before you leave the installation site.
    Vern, looks like the inspector was not as sharp as the inspectors in your area...

  3. #42
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    Location
    Eastern PA
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    And here is a very good reason why an HVAC site should be exclusively for HVAC professionals. It is a shame when someone not in our industry uses our means of bettering ourselves against us by taking our conversations out of context.

    Let me guess dx, you also want to sue every doctor that does not cure a patient?

    Things change and that is what sites like this are for; so that HVAC pros can exchange information to keep up with new innovations and new proper proceedures.

    Those techs that use an evacuation pump for 1/2 an hour without measuring the vacuum with a micron gauge were taught that method a few years back...our understanding has changed. Prior to using evacuation methods we in the industry were taught to open up the lines and purge refrigerant through the system for 15 seconds per 25 foot of lineset. That was the proceedure we knew.

    We were taught to install furnaces with induces draft blowers with single wall vent pipe into a masonry chimney or out the side of a structure. Now we know that is not a good thing to do. There are many methods that were once thought to be correct that are now wrong. That is why we come to forums like this one; to share our knowledge.

    Tell me dx; has anything in the building trade changed that it takes a while for all builders to catch up to? Of course there are.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  4. #43
    Originally posted by dx
    Jultzya, I'm in favor of giving people a chance to fix their mistakes. Unfortunately for you guys, hvac is not like buying a pound of spoiled cheese. A lot of hvac installation errors will slowly kill something and are not readily apparent until a failure well past the warranty. Corrosion from insufficient vacuum comes to mind.
    A good hvac contractor should have and follow procedures and checklists that insure everything is done correctly. The time to fix the error is before you leave the installation site.
    Hummmmm.... I wonder if that could be the reason I'm higher than 95% of the contractors in my area?

    Cause, I take the time to make sure things are right BEFORE I leave. For my client is just as important to me as my own life. I don't take short cuts, and will not take short cuts to lower my performance to get a job.

    Now, the real question that I have for you now, is... What is the best way to get this through to the HO'ers that are price shopping?????????????????
    (cause all they see is the bottom line, not the long term)

  5. #44
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    Eastern PA
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    Most builders are more of price shoppers then HOs are. I had often been told by builders that they wanted me to do the HVAC on their jobs because they felt I was the best around. That...and a nickel cheaper....is what got me the jobs.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  6. #45
    RoBo... How can you be the best and be the cheapest?

    The two just don't mix well.

  7. #46
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
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    4,970
    Well I dont know about that I have seen quite a few out there that do crappy work and charge a lot. It is just like a lot of homeowners say......They have been in business for years , so they MUST do good work. Well we all know that isnt always true. So saying you have to be real expensive or over priced to do good work is about as true. It just depends on who you are dealing with wether your getting what you paid for or what you really needed. Quality isnt cheap but it usally isnt over priced.

    [Edited by dec on 08-07-2005 at 08:03 PM]

  8. #47
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
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    Originally posted by jultzya
    RoBo... How can you be the best and be the cheapest?

    The two just don't mix well.
    One of the reasons I got out of the contracting end. I was a complete hands on business owner that found I did not care for the business end and was getting a bit too wore out for the hands end. It got to the point where I was telling too many people to hire someone else or pay what I was charging.

    What is ironic is that I wound up being busier then ever getting calls to fix the systems that others that initially beat me out in price had installed. They were not really hack installs, just not enough attention paid to the particulars needed in high end homes with multiple levels and massive rooms.

    I've learned to love this industry early in my career but must admit that I have become burned out with certain aspects of it as I have grown older. All in all, I have to like what I am doing because what I do for a living pretty much dominates my life. This is by choice.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  9. #48
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    171
    Well, I find that quality and price do not always correlate. I see plenty bad work the HOs have paid dearly for. I also have some really good subs who charge less than average. Most of my customers rarely get more than one quote. They go with someone recommended to them by someone they know and trust. But my customers can afford it. There are folks out there who can't afford to pay top price, regardless of quality. Some can barely afford to pay anything.

    How do you do top quality at low prices? Aaaaahhhh...you do like Toyota. Doing quality work and running a business well are two separate skills, both necessary. I'm working on it...

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