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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Dothan
    Posts
    57

    Question

    Lets face it.Service techs have been getting by with common sense on heating and cooling since the beginning of it all,and im one of them.I been taught of all the necessities of this field(superheat subcool enthalpy wetbulb drybulb etc.)the list goes on.I have recently became a service tech after 9 years as an installer.I have never had to be somebody to go back on my own jobs and go through such techniques to ensure comfort.I guess our load calculator/comfort advisor was just that good to know how to sell and design the systems we installed.Now that i am ready to start a sevice career,i want to be a crusader in these practices,but i haven't found one tech that does it.What the heck is all that about.It seems like i am going to be on a lonley road of faith.I need some advice on how yall answer the remarks that i have had to endure for being one to go this extra mile especially when everybody is doing fine getting by without it.By the way attacking me for having to ask will not do anybody any good,because i am asking and willing to be an ambassador of higher education in our field,i would just like to hear anybodies "ammo" when being confronted in this situation.
    The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them,Albert Einstein.Stop,Think,and Act!Find the PROBLEM before ever considering the SOLUTION,Carey Collins. What would Chesty Puller do?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Louisville, KY
    Posts
    12,189
    Originally posted by wideawake
    I need some advice on how yall answer the remarks that i have had to endure for being one to go this extra mile especially when everybody is doing fine getting by without it.
    It's simple in my position as a tech rep. No superheat? No subcooling? No problem. Thanks for calling and have a nice day.

    How can you properly diagnose things without them? Better yet, how can I diagnose a problem over the phone without them? Every no cool call or spring tune-up should include 2 pressures and eight temperatures (12 for a heatpump) at a minimum. Without all the information, it's a guess.

    Here's an example: Last month I was checking the charge on my home system. It has a TEV. If I'd been like most techs, I'd have only measure LL press and temp. Higher than normal press with excessive subcooling. Overcharge, right? Wrong. I also measured SL press and temp. Superheat was high, too. I've got a TEV going bad. However, most techs would have 'recovered' some charge and called it good until the next hot day. Then, the system wouldn't be keeping setpoint satisfied. Callback for the average joe.

    This is not meant to be a brag session. Just an example of how the getting all the information tells you the real story. An extra fifteen minutes on the first call can save you multiple hours in call backs if the problem is identified properly.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    3,708
    Go the extra mile,Its never crowded.

    The trouble with doing something right the first time is that nobody appreciates how difficult it was.
    Can I get a amen?

    [Edited by simpleman on 07-31-2005 at 04:46 PM]

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Dothan
    Posts
    57
    I know i am on to something here.we have a fair share of callbacks that we guess at.When a tech doesnt figure it out, they bounce the call to the next tech,and when he doesnt get it,they just accuse the homeowner of being pickey.Eventually they will call somebody else or just deal with it.
    The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them,Albert Einstein.Stop,Think,and Act!Find the PROBLEM before ever considering the SOLUTION,Carey Collins. What would Chesty Puller do?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Suppy NC
    Posts
    4,513
    take the extra step or be just like all the rest of the so so techs. anyone can guess till it is time to be a tech. when that one so called pain in the ass comes in and no one can find out what is wrong because all they know is rule of thumb or just hack it. your will some day be the one the boss will turn to and say fix it. this is when takeing that extra step and putting up with the kidding and hassle will pay off for you. trust me if you listen and learn from here and on all of the calls you go on this will some day happen. when it does and you find and fix the problem or have to discuss it with a tech rep you will know the reason for it all. dont be affraid to be good. it is a hard road and a lot of guys will think you are nuts but it will be worth it when those same guys are asking you the questions. do it right or dont do it at all
    wayne

  6. #6
    most residntial service techs and of course some commercial
    techs do not fully understand subcooling and superheat.
    and most in the residential market are not taught proper service techniques. run and gun. if problem is unsolvable in a few minutes its come up with an answere that is not valid or sell a new unit or overcharge and run.
    subcooling tells you how much refrigerant is in the system and superheat tells you whats wrong with the system.
    pressures do not tell you anything really.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    South Dakota
    Posts
    6,579
    Originally posted by airworx
    most residntial service techs and of course some commercial
    techs do not fully understand subcooling and superheat.
    and most in the residential market are not taught proper service techniques. run and gun. if problem is unsolvable in a few minutes its come up with an answere that is not valid or sell a new unit or overcharge and run.
    subcooling tells you how much refrigerant is in the system and superheat tells you whats wrong with the system.
    pressures do not tell you anything really.
    Correction required here;

    Subcooling tells you how much liquid refrigerant is (how flooded it is) in the condenser.

    Superheat tells you how much liquid refrigerant is in the low side.

    Along with the air temperature rise over the condenser and the air temperature drop across the evaporator you can quickly determine if the system is

    undercharged
    overcharged
    restricted
    lacking in evaporator airflow
    or
    lacking in condenser airflow

    You need all the information to properly analyze the refrigerant system.


  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    South Dakota
    Posts
    6,579


    jrbenny is correct! There will always be those technicians who will sneer at you because you are learning how to do it the right way. Ignore them and continue to learn the theory and application of that theory to the real world.

    Those same guys who sneer at you will soon be seeking you out to get them out of trouble when they can't solve their problems. Additionally, you will find when you go to assist them you will not only have to fix the real problem, you will have to undo their failed "fixes" they tried in their attempts to fix the actual problem.

    Continual education and a genuine interest in learning as much as you can is your key to becoming the "go to" guy at your company.


  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    7,763
    Originally posted by simpleman
    Go the extra mile,Its never crowded.

    The trouble with doing something right the first time is that nobody appreciates how difficult it was.
    Can I get a amen?

    [Edited by simpleman on 07-31-2005 at 04:46 PM]
    AND a big AMEN that is!
    "The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers it can bribe the public with the public's own money.
    - Alexis de Toqueville, 1835

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Dothan
    Posts
    57

    Thumbs up

    guys,this is some good stuff,and a good web site.
    The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them,Albert Einstein.Stop,Think,and Act!Find the PROBLEM before ever considering the SOLUTION,Carey Collins. What would Chesty Puller do?

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    South Dakota
    Posts
    6,579
    Originally posted by wideawake
    guys,this is some good stuff,and a good web site.
    Be sure to check out the articles in the "For Your Interest" area on the main page of this site.

    Norm

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
    Posts
    68,058
    Wide,
    You said others are getting by. And then said there are problems with callbacks not being resovled.

    You gave yourself the ammo you are looking for.

    By doing it the right way, you can keep your customers happy.

    You minimize call backs,and increase profit.

    Thats my amen.

    Contractor locator map

    How-to-apply-for-Professional

    How many times must one fix something before it is fixed?

  13. #13

    Question



    -----------"Subcooling tells you how much liquid refrigerant is (how flooded it is) in the condenser.

    Superheat tells you how much liquid refrigerant is in the low side.

    Along with the air temperature rise over the condenser and the air temperature drop across the evaporator you can quickly determine if the system is"---------------

    My tech manual is not very good at explaining this in an easy to understand way. How do I measuer temp drop across evap if I can not easily acees it, can I just measure the temp at return and supply grill ? Also temp rise across condenser how is that measured ? I'm sure I know but just to verify.

    Thanks


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