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Thread: NON Union story
08-03-2005, 08:08 AM #14
I don't get the whole damn thing.
I don't give a rats ass if your union or not. I won't pay you, if you suck.
I worked with about twenty union guys. Was not impressed. And they think they were all that and a bag of chips. It was almost too funny at times. Before I left, I had gotten an new supervisor. The boss's buddy. It's the only way he could make it. And I am sitting there seeing this guys absolute suck ways, and I just couldn't live with the fact he was making more, doing a lot less, and what he was doing he was screwing up all the time. Now the other twenty, cause there union guys, they keep their mouth shut, take it up the ass, don't stir nothing up. My experience with union guys is that there a bunch of wus's that do not strive to excell.
08-03-2005, 08:16 AM #15
I almost forgot about this. You know one thing the union says is that they have great training. What a bunch of bull****.
I signed up for a boiler course while "in" with a few of my co workers. This boiler class was a friggin absolute joke. The guy, morbidly obese, wanted to talk about anything other than fixing a boiler. And when it was technical, it was from VHS video tapes, copied over about ten times from the early 80's. So I tell my boss, you know, what the hell. Why is the union worth it to me, when the only real advanatge I thought it would have would be the good future training.
I think I have figured this out. Go back to high school. I was in shop class all the way through and loved it. Some guys were in there and just dug it, teared engines down, built houses, got into it real good. The other half of the class stood around cheating off you. Wanted to look cool but didn't get to understand how to really do it.
08-04-2005, 07:20 AM #16
It's as simple an idea as I can possibly see. Clear as crystal. If you are good enough at this trade, whatever your niche, you do not need a beloning to a union to make good money. Rather. If you are good enough, the union is going to limit your earning potential.
If your a competitive person. If your a guy or gal who just has an independance about you, and has a tough mentality, you will never last in a union. You will go crazy, you will be stifled. They need people who keep their mouth shut and do as their told, no matter how stupid it is.
The "package". Okay. Most here know what that means. I sat down one weekend and I tore it apart, as compared to what I was paying myself and providing my own benefits. Do you realize how much more money goes into that hall beyond what it cost for the bennies. Screw that. And it just kills me all these union guys who think there pension is this great retirement deal. Some locals also have a 401k type thing in addition the the pension. Both combined, is still short of what you can earn on the open market with the same money. Some non union guys who are in a real life 401k are getting a ton more bang for there buck. And to boot, these guys think that pension is bullet proof. What a joke. The UA, the national pension, a dozen or so board members are under indictment for fraud, for shaky investment activity in interests in Florida.
And another thing. The union does influence who will or will not work for a certain contractor. It's not a at will thing for the contractor as some union membership describe.
I tried to tell some of my coworkers this. None would listen. It's like they don't want to learn what the hell there money is doing for them.
The union is not worth it to any young aspiring techncian who wants to excell. It's just all a bunch of crap.
08-04-2005, 08:13 AM #17Member
- Join Date
- Mar 2004
quite a difference between winning an open bid job and putting a company out of business....
If the non union co. won the contract, would they be guilty of trying to put the union contractor out of business....?
Some very good points. Some hyperbole.
I do agree with your comment about limiting your earning potential. I was making (grossing) more being non union than what I started at with the union. But, I had to co-pay for my med and 401/pension. I actually netted more when I switched to union.
I have no doubt that SOME unions are run poorly by self serving officers, that's a sin.
I personally feel our local is well run and quite open. I am thankful.
I've seen union workers fired for non performance. There is a procedure that safe guards union contractors from such dead weight, how ever cumbersome that it may be.
Maybe there should be a ban of these types of threads. Sure seems to raise the hackles of a lot of folks.
I think some folks take them too seriously. Bob
But, in the end we all make up our own minds, and hopefully we're all happy!
08-04-2005, 08:51 AM #18
Point out the Hyperbole.
I can pretty much authenticate everything I have said on this issue. I have been both sides as a technician, and as a contractor. I think I am more than qualified to speak about this with out trying to dramatize it. Few have the same perspective or experience.
08-04-2005, 08:59 AM #19
Go ask what Systint has gone through. I for the life of me can not understand why any contractor thinks it's a good deal for them. The money is outragous. And the mechanics. There just the middle guy. There not getting what they should out of the deal, and I don't beleive they ever will.
You say you net more. I completely understand. But Total Compensation, and most important money forward for your future. There system is not good for you the worker. It just aint. Here the dental for the package is gone, while non union shops are providing full coverage dental.
You must understand me. I am all for all of us making more money. Me, you, every single wrench swining guy out there. I am just saying, having experienced this four ways, oh my god, there is a ton wrong with it. Not anything I need or want. And yes I would influence and advise younger techs not to even think about it.
And then all the games that go on. I don't get why anyone would want to invite that all onto themselves.
I am a freedom guy. No one but myself and my customers should control my business. Your just asking for trouble going union. Simple.
08-04-2005, 09:02 AM #20
One last thing.
If you go back a year, maybe two, I was a supporter. I bought the theory. As I mature in my business acumen, and as a tech, I just have gone through a learning process that now tells me as I have stated in my previous posts.
I don't come to the table on the issue with just feelings or opinions. I have lived it. I have learned it. I have changed my thinking on it.
08-04-2005, 11:10 AM #21Member
- Join Date
- Mar 2004
All points noted.
Have a great day.
Just call me the "Spoon" LOL
It's been enlightening and a good mental excerise for me.
08-04-2005, 02:06 PM #22
Believer it or not, I am actually for an organized labor force which can be called a union or not as long as it is healthy. I think what we might call management has elements just as extreme in it as the present day union labor management force that will and can and have taken advantage of the "working skilled craftsman."
Last job I just did with union contractors was at local university building where the sheetrock union contractor underbid (on purpose) about $40,000 I was told to purely keep the job away from non union contractors. Then the local winning union bidder got the difference from the sheetrocker union to make up the difference. You got to ask yourself if you find this kind of "fixing" fair and proper in todays market. BTW, the sheetrockers union was about to go on strike for more money according to the guys that were telling me this. I don't know what happended. I'm too busy making a living and keeping customer happy.
But sure a waste of time and complications for such a normal job.
I think buy the unions fading away, and they are starting to around here, it's actually a bad sign for the American economy. I would hope the union memebers would start taking a realistice look at the world business climate, get rid of most of their upper management and put in place some very down to earth, responsible managers."The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers it can bribe the public with the public's own money.
- Alexis de Toqueville, 1835
08-04-2005, 04:44 PM #23
I suppose it rings true for both Union and non, people quit there bosses not there jobs.
I have a problem with the lack of Freedom Unions bring, basically you lose all your rights and/or voice when you sign up.If common sense is so common how come so few of us have it!