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  1. #14
    Lowtemp and others:

    "Unions may have done some good many years ago,but their time has come and gone."

    Their time will come again. Maybe not in my life time, but as soon as conditions get to where they were when unions were needed there will be an upsurge in membership.

    Have we forgotten what it was like prior to them?
    80 hour work weeks, children working dangerous jobs, no minimum wage, no workers comp., etc, etc, etc.

    Yes, their time will come again.

  2. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
    Posts
    68,944
    No one here could have forgotten those conditions since no one here is old enough to remember those conditions.

    Yes, it was those conditions that allowed organized crime to infect the labor force by actually helping the laborors. It is a shame that only organized crime was available to take advantage of the labor situation, but that is the way it was.

    There is today, no need for labor unions in the United States. Labor unions are draining the labor force of the U.S. and causing businesses to outsource labor from other countries, or worse, just destroying entire industries to the point that we can only afford to import certain products.

    At the rate the American auto industry is going, Americans will all soon be driving foreign vehicles.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  3. #16
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    400
    Originally posted by RoBoTeq
    [.


    At the rate the American auto industry is going, Americans will

    all soon be driving foreign vehicles. [/B]
    Ok we already are driving foriegn cars . The only need is to get management to share the wealth . All we are asking for is a wage we can live on not scrape by on .
    is this really happening or not

  4. #17
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
    Posts
    68,944
    Over 87% of the American labor force works merit shop and is not scraping by. It is the 13% that is the issue.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  5. #18
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    400
    Merit shop whas's that like a merit badge ? Keep your badge I'll take the loot . 87% huh not scraping by I don't about that I just know how it was for me before I worked union .
    is this really happening or not

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
    Posts
    68,944
    Good for you dubble, enjoy it while it lasts. I have always been for workers getting the most that they can for what they do, even if working under unions.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  7. #20
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Jacksonville, FL.
    Posts
    4,313
    I own 10% of a co., & I'll be damned if I'm gonna let some extortionist organization dictate to me who I can or can not hire or fire. If my employees don't like the way my business is run they can quit & find another job.

  8. #21
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    607
    i believe unions are for 'factory workers' .They need some protection i guess. Considering a monkey could probably learn their job in an hour!

  9. #22
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    chicago suburbs
    Posts
    4,422
    Originally posted by special ed
    I own 10% of a co., & I'll be damned if I'm gonna let some extortionist organization dictate to me who I can or can not hire or fire. If my employees don't like the way my business is run they can quit & find another job.

    why do you guys think that you can't get rid of union people??? you guys that have never been/dealt with a union don't have a clue. if i stop performing, i'm gone. plain and simple. you guys gotta stop watching the Sopranos.
    FILL OUT YOUR PROFILE!!

  10. #23
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    9,564
    Originally posted by tinner73
    Originally posted by special ed
    I own 10% of a co., & I'll be damned if I'm gonna let some extortionist organization dictate to me who I can or can not hire or fire. If my employees don't like the way my business is run they can quit & find another job.

    why do you guys think that you can't get rid of union people??? you guys that have never been/dealt with a union don't have a clue. if i stop performing, i'm gone. plain and simple. you guys gotta stop watching the Sopranos.
    Unions typically structure their deals to maintain an underfunded liability that the leaving contractor would then pay lump sum. If the company goes belly-up then they lose out but the union will play with your pension being underfunded for the contract. (typically 30-40%)

    Additionally, the union has alot of say on who you hire and fire, especially if you are a smaller company.

    I know because I own a business that had union contracts and was a union steamfitter.

    How about this one... local area union selectively strikes some of barganing group. Contractors of the group essentially lock out. Grievance hearing time. Contractor who didn't lock out with National agreement gets called into the interrogation, waits 5 hours. They get into the "meeting" and the union bosss then says - "I've got no problem with XXXX contractor. Contractor XXXX, do you have anything to say?" (I had warned of this tactic and told contractor XXXX to say nothing and leave if given the opportunity)

    Contractor thinks everything is cool and states case of what's going on currently, hoping for settlement, etc...

    Then, 2 employees of contractor XXXX are brought in to provide a "report". Now the union suddenly has a problem. Meanwhile, the contractor is wondering what the heck is going on.

    What ends up happening is that the national says get everyone to settle locally or we are pulling your national agreement.

    Yep - got the phone call that very afternoon from XXXX. You can bet they will act differently next time.

    Sure, you can "run out of work" for the 2 union stooges, but that's about all the "control" you have. You still have to work with "their" people and get their labor. You can bet if you rock the boat you get the bench dwellers. Or, if you are smaller they don't care.

  11. #24
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Posts
    1,606

    Talking

    Ah kind of the funny side of union workers here. A chunk of people commute an hour that live in this non union town so they do make the $$$, but live here so they don't have to pay union scale $$$ for services.

    I was doing the mechanicals on a union dudes new house several yrs ago and on the 3rd day of his griping about cost he asked me "Why does this stuff cost so much yak yak yak..." I finally responded to him with "Cause it's all union made" Didnt hear another word from him.
    "The Bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten"

  12. #25
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    400
    Originally posted by RoBoTeq
    Good for you dubble, enjoy it while it lasts. I have always been for workers getting the most that they can for what they do, even if working under unions.
    Thanks for the cool response ROBO . By the how PA treating you ? Good I hope .
    is this really happening or not

  13. #26
    Man RoBo, who gave you a wedgie?! I hope you have a kinder gentler side.
    No doubt organized crime DID have an influence on labor unions, but certainly MUCH less now. Let's not forget the Enron's, the World Com's, the S&L scandals--- talk about organized crime!
    Unions are not draining the labor force. As stated in other threads, many non union guys are making MORE than union workers, are they also a problem?
    GREED. Whether it be owner, corporate or stock holders greed is causing the out sourcing of jobs. Not to mention NAFTA, GATT, and now CAFTA!
    Corporations could move from the urban (expensive) areas to more rural (less expensive) areas but they don't. They want BELOW minimum wages, no health benefit expenses, and less gov't intrusions.
    The big three automakers are all still in business. The percentage of wages to vehicle costs has been decreasing due to increases in productivity. The costs of health care and raw materials is what's going up as a percentage of new vehicle costs.
    How many foreign car manufacturers are building in the USA? Toyota, Honda, Hyundai are all building in the USA. Why? Because the US is the most productive country in the world. We work harder, longer and with less time off than any country I'm aware of.
    If you are non union and happy great! I'm union (now) and happy. Isn't that great too!
    I don't think we can paint with such a broad brush( that all unions are bad) Certainly the sweat shops, low migrant worker wages, are not the result of unions. Who's to blame there? OWNER'S GREED---- Peace. Bob

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