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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    12
    I am looking for more information on the following furnaces (AFUE and other specs):

    York P4USD12N08001A furnace
    Lennox G1203-82 furnace

    The York is mine, and the Lennox is my neighbor's, and we are thinking of replacing it with new 90%+ efficient furnaces, to lower gas bills. Any comments about these old furnaces, and the pros and cons of changing them (reliability of new furnaces, etc) are welcome. They are well maintained and not giving any problems. It's the $$$ for gas bills that's driving us to consider newer more efficient furnaces. We live just north of Cincinnati, and have been getting some cold winters the past few years.

    Thanks for your advice.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    burlington county n.j.
    Posts
    9,744
    lennox heater 82,000 btu 65-70% afue probably due to be replaced. could not find york #s in my book.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Kansas City
    Posts
    1,482
    York unit about 15 years old. May have electronic ignition, but is about 65-70% AFUE.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
    Posts
    68,123
    That york number doesn't come up.

    But should be about 78%, and its also an 80,000btu.

    Before you just change them out.
    Try improving the house insulation, doors, and windows.

    Going to 90% units, will save 10 to 15%, but improving the house can save alot more.
    Then have a load calc done to see what size furnaces your houses need.
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    How many times must one fix something before it is fixed?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Kansas City
    Posts
    1,482
    The York Number Didn't come up for me either, but I saw one very similar just today. It was a P4usd16n14001a. Larger size than the one listed here, but the blower motor had a 1990 date code. It was a ribbon burner natural draft furnace with spark ignition. The AFUE is an estimate only based on similar units.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    12
    Thanks! this furnace was apparently installed two owners ago, our current neighbors have no idea about the age of the unit, all they know is that the furnace uses a pilot lamp that is always burning. Would appreciate if anyone knows the age of this furnace, and whether it is reaching its design limit.

    My neighbors think it needs replacement soon. The folks who sold them the place have no idea about the furnace, since it was apparently installed before them. What is the typical life span of this old furnace, and what warning signs of failure should they watch out for? Thanks!

    Originally posted by t527ed
    lennox heater 82,000 btu 65-70% afue probably due to be replaced. could not find york #s in my book.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    12
    Thanks! Since we moved in, we put in new replacement windows (double paned, low-e, argon windows), new storm and entry doors, and new insulation in the attic. That brought down the consumption, but as natural gas prices have been rising in the Cincinnati area the past few years, we still ended up paying more. Hence, our interest to consider a more efficient furnace.

    The seller told us that the furnace was installed in 1990, but that was all they knew. Just wondering about the design and specs of this York furnace, and the experiences of the various techs in servicing similar models. If it doesn't have a good reliable record (e.g., the control board, ignition, heat exchanger, etc break down easily after 15
    years), then we will seriously consider getting a new furnace. Thanks!

    Originally posted by beenthere
    That york number doesn't come up.

    But should be about 78%, and its also an 80,000btu.

    Before you just change them out.
    Try improving the house insulation, doors, and windows.

    Going to 90% units, will save 10 to 15%, but improving the house can save alot more.
    Then have a load calc done to see what size furnaces your houses need.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    12
    Thanks! I went down to take another look, and it has a S/N: EAXM007348, and rated 78,000 BTU. No date anywhere, but as I mentioned in another reply, the sellers told us that the furnace was installed in 1990.

    Could you explain what is a ribbon burner natural draft furnace?

    For spark ignition: is it a silicon nitride or silicon carbide ignition? All I know is that it has electronic ignition of some sort, not the old fashioned pilot lamp.

    Is this furnace reaching its design limit?

    Thanks for your assistance.

    Originally posted by james mo
    The York Number Didn't come up for me either, but I saw one very similar just today. It was a P4usd16n14001a. Larger size than the one listed here, but the blower motor had a 1990 date code. It was a ribbon burner natural draft furnace with spark ignition. The AFUE is an estimate only based on similar units.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    I don't know
    Posts
    2,903
    Natural Draft implies that a draft hood is used to vent the combustion gasses as opposed to a blower. (referred to as induced draft)

    Ribbon is the type of burner - new furnaces use inshot burners which are more suitable for current heat exchangers and allow for horizontal installation.



    Inshot:



    For spark ignition: is it a silicon nitride or silicon carbide ignition? All I know is that it has electronic ignition of some sort, not the old fashioned pilot lamp.
    Neither. Silicon nitride/silicon carbide = Hot surface ignition.

    A spark is used to ignite the flame as opposed to a standing pilot or Hot surface igniter. On many units like that, the spark lights an intermittent pilot. Once the flame sensor proves ignition, the main gas valve opens, as oppose to doing it directly without any pilot.

    I am not a technician - please wait from someone else confirm this.

    [Edited by amd on 07-29-2005 at 01:59 AM]

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
    Posts
    68,123
    amd, you have it right.
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  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Kansas City
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    Your design limit on this furnace is going to vary greatly upon the original installation quality and service/maintenance history. I am not familiar with your climate, but we generally give furnaces a 12-20 year life span here. Again, varies from install to install.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    12
    Thanks, amd (for the illustrations), beenthere and james mo for the information. The furnace is installed in a damp basement (with water seepage problems), it shares space with a washer and dryer (and lots of odds and ends). When I got a tech to service the York when we first moved in, the tech remarked that it seems that the furnace was never serviced since the day it was installed. Apparently, the ribbon burners were coated with a thick layer of soot. I've been having it serviced every year for the past 3 years.

    And yes, I recognize the ribbon burners in my York furnace. It seems terribly inefficient compared to the inshot burners.

    Originally posted by james mo
    Your design limit on this furnace is going to vary greatly upon the original installation quality and service/maintenance history. I am not familiar with your climate, but we generally give furnaces a 12-20 year life span here. Again, varies from install to install.
    Are there warning signs of a dying furnace that I should pay attention to? The tech says that the heat exchanger looks okay to him, can last a few more years, although I shouldn't count on it. How reliable is the spark ignition compared with current hot surface and older standing pilots? Thanks.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
    Posts
    68,123
    Although York doesn't use it on residencial units anymore.

    Spark ignition is very reliable.

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