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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
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    Ottawa, ON
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    24

    Adding foreign BACnet device to reliable controls

    I'm trying to add a Distech BACnet VAV to an existing Reliable BACnet MS/TP network. Can anyone shed some light on this, if at all possible.

    Thanks

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
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    Could you give us some more information? Have you programed the Distech controller? Are you using RC-Studio as a front end or another OWS?

    If the VAV controller has been programed with it's device instance and the baud rate is the same as the rest of the network and your MAC address is unique on the MS/TP network the controller should come right into RC-Studio. I just used RC-Studio to discover 4 Carrier chillers yesterday and it was pretty much plug and play. Make sure that the Max Master of the highest MAC addressed controller includes the MAC address that the VAV controller you are adding.

    Are you positive that the Reliable network is BACnet? Their controllers also can be configured to RC protocol that is proprietary and you will not be able to add a BACnet controller to that network.

    kontrol out
    "Open is as open does." - Forrest Gump
    "Can't we all just get a Lon?" - Garry Jack
    "BACnet: integration or interrogation?" - The Janitor
    "Open protocols? You can't handle open protocols!" - Nathan R. Jessup
    “What’s that? Aaa… open protocols? Don’t talk about…. open protocols? Are you kidding me? Open protocols? I just hope we can hardwire an interface!” - Jim Mora http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7fjDS0jKiE

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Ottawa, ON
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    Sorry about the lack of information, this is the setup:

    There's a 20-story office tower with with an existing Reliable controls using RC-Studio 2.0. Theres roughly 7 Ether-Links, a couple Pro-Coms and about 3 Mach-Globals. On one of the Mach-Globals theres a Mach1 connected to subnetworkA which i can see. I'm trying to add this ECB-VAV to that subnetwork. Mac address is set, baud rate is 38400. the ECBVAV is the highest addressed.

    if i open MSet i can see that the configuration is Bacnet, however the controllers only appear in the RCP system tree. If i go the the bacnet network tree, they dont show up. I'm assuming thats where i have to discover the controller.

    Thanks

  4. #4
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    I would guess to say the network has been set up as the proprietary RC protocol if none of the controllers show up on the BACnet tab. This could be verified with RC-Toolkit.

    kontrol out
    "Open is as open does." - Forrest Gump
    "Can't we all just get a Lon?" - Garry Jack
    "BACnet: integration or interrogation?" - The Janitor
    "Open protocols? You can't handle open protocols!" - Nathan R. Jessup
    “What’s that? Aaa… open protocols? Don’t talk about…. open protocols? Are you kidding me? Open protocols? I just hope we can hardwire an interface!” - Jim Mora http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7fjDS0jKiE

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Ottawa, ON
    Posts
    24
    if i log into M-set with RC-ToolKit and go to the MACH-Global, SubA is set up for BACnet/Sub....Main network is also set for BACnet, unless I'm not looking at the right place?

  6. #6
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    Well I'm stumped. Have you checked the Max Master setting of the highest addressed RC controller on the network? What type of connection between the OWS and network controller? You should see the RC controllers in the BACnet tab if they are set to communicate BACnet. The early direct connect cables only worked on RC protocol, if you ae connected Ethernet you could see BACnet.

    kontrol out
    "Open is as open does." - Forrest Gump
    "Can't we all just get a Lon?" - Garry Jack
    "BACnet: integration or interrogation?" - The Janitor
    "Open protocols? You can't handle open protocols!" - Nathan R. Jessup
    “What’s that? Aaa… open protocols? Don’t talk about…. open protocols? Are you kidding me? Open protocols? I just hope we can hardwire an interface!” - Jim Mora http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7fjDS0jKiE

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Ottawa, ON
    Posts
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    The OWS and network controllers are all connected via ethernet to a router.

    By Max Master do you mean Last Panel for the Reliable system? If yes, then I do have it set properly.

    I'm thinking that my problem is getting the existing network to appear on the BACnet tab, and then i should be able to find it.

    On a side note, there's another Office tower connected to this complex, and its all Johnson's, but they've managed to pull they're network controllers onto the BACnet tab.

    Thanks

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    2,459
    Please do not take this the wrong way, but it is possible that you should let someone familiar with BACnet controls handle this project.

    In BACnet, the term "max_master" indicates the last device on the MS/TP network that can receive a token. This value can be set as high as 127. If the MS/TP address of the controller is for example, set to 85 and the max_master of the other controllers on the network are set to 84 or less, then device 85 will not get the token and will not respond to broadcasts. It will be in effect, a slave.

    Again, please don't take my comments the wrong way. But if you are not familiar with the term "max_master" one cannot help but think that you might want to call in someone who has used BACnet products before to lend you a hand.

  9. #9
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    Apr 2011
    Location
    Ottawa, ON
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    I know what the term 'Max-Master' means. I worked with Reliable controls when I first started out and remembered that they have an option 'Last Panel' which always had to be set as the highest addressed controller on the network...So, I was wondering if that's what they called 'Max-Master' or is there an actual 'Max-Master' option that I have not found on the Reliable system.

    Like I said in my previous post, I don't believe that this is my problem right now, but rather trying to get the Reliable stuff to show up on the BACnet tab. Once I get to that stage, I'm sure I can get that part working.

    Thanks

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
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    2,459
    Now I understand.

    Hopefully you can see where I misunderstood your post. As a general rule of thumb, folks on this board will bend over backwards to help a guy out but we all get a bit gun shy when it starts to sound like a DIY question.


  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Southern California
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    230

    BACnet network number?

    Check to see if your Reliable Controls BACnet MSTP network has a defined "BACnet MSTP Network Number", and if it does, you will have to see if your new Distech BACnet VAV controllers have the same network number.

    Some BACnet manufacturers have not caught up to the current BACnet standards in regards to changeable "BACnet Network Numbers".

    I am seeing more "BACnet brand" "take-overs" happening and almost half of the failures are because the BACnet MSTP network numbers were not the same, or a BACnet controller did not allow the change of the BACnet network number.

    Food for thought

    Drac
    "We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit" Aristotle

    Remember to "Pay it Forward"; help out the newer generation of techs, remember someone during our career helped us! ("Pay it Forward" was by someone smarter than me!!)

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
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    I have to admit that I was a bit stumped by this thread- and not just for a few seconds.

    What dracula is suggesting is that these Distech controllers might be using a new part of the BACnet protocol, 2008 Addendum G. In this addendum the concept of network security and encryption was added to the BACnet protocol. In it, controllers can be locked down so that they do not speak to "others" unless they have been granted access with a software key. It also allows people to "hide" properties and even whole objects.

    As I understand it, this was an addition that was a key part of adding access control to BACnet as one would not want just anyone overriding access points. It took me a while to realize that what Dracula was suggesting was that Distech might have added this network security feature to their MS/TP vav controllers (for reasons I have to admit escape me).

    If that is the case and these VAV's have been built to use access control level security, then yes, they would be aware of their network number. This is significantly different than all other MS/TP devices which are not aware of their numbers.

    So I would follow his advice and check to see if these VAV's were programmed to use the Access Control security layer. If so, you may simply need to tell these units what their network number is. You may also find out that you need a front end that is access control security aware as well...

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Denver
    Posts
    2
    Dallas,

    If the BACnet side of Reliable Controls is not talking I would look at your IP addressing. If the Mach Pro's IP address is set for 192.168.1.200 then your PC's Ethernet card needs to be in the same family such as 192.168.1.201. I would also check to see what the subnet mask is set for. Unless there is some reason not to it should be set to 255.255.255.0. Reliable has one of the better implementations when communicating to third party devices on ms/tp so you should be able to get the device up and talking.

    Let me know if that helps.

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