Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 27 to 39 of 41
  1. #27
    Originally posted by neophytes serendipity
    [QUOTE
    The situation of an employer charging OT for after hours work, yet not necessarily paying OT rates is no different than a shop sending out apprentices or similarly lower paid employees, yet charging the customer their standard labor rate.

    If the shop is legally bound to pay OT after 40, then they can do whatever they want- like manipulating employee schedules- to prevent you from getting that OT. Unless you have an agreed start time or normal workday spelled out in an employee handbook, the boss can make you start at 5 pm to meet the customers needs, and charge them OT rates, yet you get nothing.

    I know people that work for a retailer, sometimes these people must work 12-14 hour days. The boss makes em take a longer lunch or they come in late or go home early to avoid the OT pay. They aren't union, so there isn't a damn thing they can do about it.

    "Union" shops are no different. Some will follow the letter of the law and pay all of the benefits entitled to the employee... Some will not. The usual outcome after complaining is termination. The supply of employers is not unlimited, and they do keep a "black book" of employees.

    Every single union shop that I have worked for always "forgets" to pay their employees something they are entitled to. Some even have a "cash" OT program. Some have a "bonus" program for bringing the job in "under hours". I complained once to the Hall. I got my money, and shortly thereafter, I had to find another job.

    [Edited by neophytes serendipity on 07-28-2005 at 06:42 AM]
    Thank you for pointing out that the BS can happen whether you are a union employee or not... I work for a merit shop and get paid OT after 8 even though the employer doesn't have to, I am gauranteed my 40 and am never sent home if there is "no work". There has only been one layoff in recent history where I work and IMO he should've been fired instead, and I have no fear of "having to find another job" because I spoke up about something that was not right.

    Everyone who has the skills and the attitude to make it in this field deserves fair treatment, don't stop until you get it, even if it means firing your boss.

  2. #28
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Slacking off right now
    Posts
    7,546
    bottom line is that while a less than honest employer can get away with it he will rip us off.

    I believe within 5 yrs there will be such a shortage of techs that this kind of treatment will greatly diminish as employers find it harder and harder to get staff (good staff)
    There will come a time where we employees will have the power to pick and choose our employers.

    untill then we have to keep our gobs shut and find the better employers to work for
    www.vetopropac.com - The best tool bags on the market - The offical tool bag of choice by techs everywhere

    Arguing with some people is like wrestling a pig - eventually you realise the pig actually enjoys it

    Gonads serve a useful purpose but are no substitute for brains

  3. #29
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Middletown, Ohio, United States
    Posts
    573
    Right on, Penguin! It is starting to change, ever so slightly. Wages are incrementally beginning to rise in this area although certainly well below the national average wages for median HVACR techs. Employers are still
    very, very reluctant to loosen the purse strings while at the same time bemoaning the fact that they can't find
    any decent techs. I hear it all the time, almost every service meeting. They have a bounty program that if we find them a tech and he works for the company for a year
    we get a $500.00 bonus. But 8 times out of 10 this doesn't work- either they turn out to be slackers and get fired or another opportunity comes along and they exit the company with all deliberate speed.

  4. #30
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    4,970
    I guess the part I dont understand is that being everyone says they are pretty much flat rate pricing, I was pretty much under the impression that they were paid more by the job. Maybe I misunderstood that being Im not flat rate pricing. Now when a lot here say they are guarenteed 40 hours are we saying these guys are paid by the hour or is there something in place to guaretee so much wether your busy or not if your flat rate. Im not trying to rob this post but I guess I get a little confused why so many people say they are flat rate but when they talk about their pay they sound like by the hour? I also guess Im currious how you guys get overtime on flat rate .....is their a differant colum at what you make when you are their after hours or over 40 hours? I guess I just thought that that might be why owners liked the flat rate charge being the tech only gets so much for doing the job ,no matter how long it takes. Also the owner might get out of overtime being the tech is only paid by the job. Sounds like that would be a rip off that way but like I say I dont do flat rate so Im a little in the dark on it.

    [Edited by dec on 07-29-2005 at 09:54 AM]

  5. #31
    Originally posted by dec
    I guess the part I dont understand is that being everyone says they are pretty much flat rate pricing, I was pretty much under the impression that they were paid more by the job. Maybe I misunderstood that being Im not flat rate pricing. Now when a lot here say they are guarenteed 40 hours are we saying these guys are paid by the hour or is there something in place to guaretee so much wether your busy or not if your flat rate. Im not trying to rob this post but I guess I get a little confused why so many people say they are flat rate but when they talk about their pay they sound like by the hour? I also guess Im currious how you guys get overtime on flat rate .....is their a differant colum at what you make when you are their after hours or over 40 hours? I guess I just thought that that might be why owners liked the flat rate charge being the tech only gets so much for doing the job ,no matter how long it takes. Also the owner might get out of overtime being the tech is only paid by the job. Sounds like that would be a rip off that way but like I say I dont do flat rate so Im a little in the dark on it.

    [Edited by dec on 07-29-2005 at 09:54 AM]
    The "flat rate" determines what the customers pay for the job, not the pay rate or structure of the tech... you are confusing auto repair with HVAC. In auto, the book also determines what the shop will pay the employee per the job not per the hour.

  6. #32
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    4,970
    Ok I guess I did misunderstand some of the posts that I have read over the years. I was under the impression some of them had stated that they got a certain amount for the job done and that it benifited them to get it done quicker being that way they could make more money by getting more done then they could if they were just paid by the hour.

  7. #33
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Slacking off right now
    Posts
    7,546
    I'll tell you what regarding flat rate, 99% of the time I'd make a killing on flat rate I outstrip all of the other techs when it comes to recomended repairs I'd get my 8 in by 2pm everyday gurrantied and my call back rate is very low too.

    Good luck every one with finding a half decent employer out there they do exist
    www.vetopropac.com - The best tool bags on the market - The offical tool bag of choice by techs everywhere

    Arguing with some people is like wrestling a pig - eventually you realise the pig actually enjoys it

    Gonads serve a useful purpose but are no substitute for brains

  8. #34
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    East Stroudsburg, PA
    Posts
    13,215
    Originally posted by pecmsg
    For a company, especially in commercial refrigeration to do that is just chickens!@#. If you were paid OT after 8 hr’s before then something happened to change it. Talk with your employer to find out why. If you don’t like their answer then refuse all overtime and start looking else ware. There are more contractors out there then qualified mechanics.



    For those of you that want to BASH the unions just remember they the ones that fought to give use a 40 hr work week, Sick days, Vacation and holiday pay. All the benefits that are taken for granted today.
    What the hell is a 40 hr work week??????

  9. #35
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    East Stroudsburg, PA
    Posts
    13,215
    Originally posted by fitter33
    Well the boss and I had a meeting today for over an hour...although I still don't like the situation, I have to give him respect for explaining to me in detail the reasoning behind these latest changes. I don't like it....but what can you do...I'll give it a couple months and compare past checks to see exactly what the difference is.

    I would like to know from the replies who works Market Refrigeration....just a guess but some of you don't fully understand what being on call in Markets really means....
    I reiterate. What the hell is a 40 hour work week????

    0800-1630 are straight time.

    1630-0800 are time and a half.

    Saturdays and Sundays are time and a half.

    Holidays we get double time, plus a straight 8 hrs., which turns it into triple time if you put in 8 that day...

    NON UNION. Always will be.

  10. #36
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    East Stroudsburg, PA
    Posts
    13,215
    Originally posted by dec
    I guess the part I dont understand is that being everyone says they are pretty much flat rate pricing, I was pretty much under the impression that they were paid more by the job. Maybe I misunderstood that being Im not flat rate pricing. Now when a lot here say they are guarenteed 40 hours are we saying these guys are paid by the hour or is there something in place to guaretee so much wether your busy or not if your flat rate. Im not trying to rob this post but I guess I get a little confused why so many people say they are flat rate but when they talk about their pay they sound like by the hour? I also guess Im currious how you guys get overtime on flat rate .....is their a differant colum at what you make when you are their after hours or over 40 hours? I guess I just thought that that might be why owners liked the flat rate charge being the tech only gets so much for doing the job ,no matter how long it takes. Also the owner might get out of overtime being the tech is only paid by the job. Sounds like that would be a rip off that way but like I say I dont do flat rate so Im a little in the dark on it.

    [Edited by dec on 07-29-2005 at 09:54 AM]
    No market account that I've ever heard of would fall for a flat rate contractor. If they're not a service contract, they are T&M.

  11. #37
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    manitowoc wisconsin
    Posts
    4,943
    If everyone leaves after an eight hour day he may change his mind.............I wonder what his customers would say if they knew they paid overtime rates to a guy getting paid straight time.???Ask him that!I think that would be considered fraud.

    [Edited by markwolf on 07-30-2005 at 06:38 AM]
    Take your time & do it right!

  12. #38
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Richmond Virginia
    Posts
    1,078
    We've discussed this before but the laws vary state by state. In Virginia you don't have to pay a guy OT until he's physically worked over 40 hours so you can pay a guy regular pay for 48 hours if that week included holiday or vacation pay for instance. We don't adhere to this because it's damn hard to get a guy to go on a OT call with this scenario but it is the law.
    On my first job the boss didn't count travel time when I had to drive out of town to work as "worked hours" and therefore didn't pay OT for those hours over 40 that were travel hours. Someone turned him into the labor board and they did make him pay that time stating that benefit time and training classes were basically the only things fitting that criteria.
    Also the recent labor law changes that concerned wage vs salary employees also changed it so that employers who pay every other week can count that as an "80" hour pay period and if a guy worked 60 hours one week and 20 the next the employer can pay him 80 hours regular time.
    I've had a few guys complain that the customer is paying OT but he's not getting it but the opposite scenario is 5 times more often the case (he's getting OT but the PM or quote isn't bid at OT).

  13. #39
    Originally posted by The Penguin
    I'll tell you what regarding flat rate, 99% of the time I'd make a killing on flat rate I outstrip all of the other techs when it comes to recomended repairs I'd get my 8 in by 2pm everyday gurrantied and my call back rate is very low too.

    Good luck every one with finding a half decent employer out there they do exist
    I've never encountered a flat-rate HVAC shop that operates like this... Flat rate benefits the tech rarely, the customer sometimes and the owner always doing hvac flat rate.

Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Comfortech Show Promo Image

Related Forums

Plumbing Talks | Contractor Magazine
Forums | Electrical Construction & Maintenance (EC&M) Magazine
Comfortech365 Virtual Event