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Thread: Hey Teddy Bear

  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN, USA
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    34,590

    Hey Teddy Bear

    In that vast encyclopedia of a mind you got, remember off hand what the open & close points of the freeze stat on the Santa Fe is? We found one froze up, the stat isn't opening even though we had a suction line below zero.

    Here's what we read on temps:

    Entering air 63/52
    Leaving air 70/55

    Suction line temp 45
    Discharge line temp 189

    Complaint was burning smell. We found the run cap which should be 35mf to be reading under 27. Change it.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Madison, WI/Cape Coral, FL
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    Quote Originally Posted by BaldLoonie View Post
    In that vast encyclopedia of a mind you got, remember off hand what the open & close points of the freeze stat on the Santa Fe is? We found one froze up, the stat isn't opening even though we had a suction line below zero.

    Here's what we read on temps:

    Entering air 63/52
    Leaving air 70/55

    Suction line temp 45
    Discharge line temp 189

    Complaint was burning smell. We found the run cap which should be 35mf to be reading under 27. Change it.
    The defrost t-stat opens at 19^F and closes at 53^F. The suction line should flood back to the accumulator. If it is low on refrigerant charge, the suction line will not reflect the suction pressure. What is the 63/52, 63^F, 52%RH??? I suspect low on charge? Suction line temp should be 32-35^F if 63^F, 52%RH.
    Glad to help.
    Regards TB
    Bear Rules: Keep our home <50% RH summer, controls mites/mold and very comfortable.
    Provide 60-100 cfm of fresh air when occupied to purge indoor pollutants and keep window dry during cold weather. T-stat setup/setback +8 hrs. saves energy
    Use +Merv 10 air filter. -Don't forget the "Golden Rule"

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Warren, MI
    Posts
    964
    On my Santa Fe Advanced, the exhaust air temperature is 24F higher than the intake.
    Bill

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN, USA
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    34,590
    The entering air was 63db 52 wb. Suction temp ran around 45 though it dropped to below zero when we killed the airflow. Freeze stat never opened. When we found it in the guy's basement, it had ice all over the piping before the accumulator. Sounds like I better call up to Wisconsin about a new freeze stat.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Madison, WI/Cape Coral, FL
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    The freeze stat should open at 19^F and close at 52^F. The ice should go to and include the accumulator.
    I think you are right, the freeze is probably not opening.
    Regards TB
    Bear Rules: Keep our home <50% RH summer, controls mites/mold and very comfortable.
    Provide 60-100 cfm of fresh air when occupied to purge indoor pollutants and keep window dry during cold weather. T-stat setup/setback +8 hrs. saves energy
    Use +Merv 10 air filter. -Don't forget the "Golden Rule"

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Warren, MI
    Posts
    964
    Is this a virus?

    Got some warm/humid weather here in Michigan. The RH in my basement was 62%@62F, so I turned on my Santa Fe Advanced. The drain hose was bone dry.

    I had this same issue back in January but the weather got cold and I couldn't follow up on it. I had a PQ Analyzer logging the current drawn by the unit. The compressor runs for about 8 minutes and then shuts off for the same amount of time. Water did fill the loop in the drain hose and finally trickles out the end after an hour or so. It took 3 1/2 hours of running like this to get the RH down to below 55%. If the compressor would stay ON, I'm sure that it would have reached 55% much sooner.

    The SFA claims that unlike others will work below 65F but it seems either the defrost switch is defective or that claim is untrue.

    Another one for Teddy Bear.
    Bill

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by wptski View Post
    Is this a virus?

    Got some warm/humid weather here in Michigan. The RH in my basement was 62%@62F, so I turned on my Santa Fe Advanced. The drain hose was bone dry.

    I had this same issue back in January but the weather got cold and I couldn't follow up on it. I had a PQ Analyzer logging the current drawn by the unit. The compressor runs for about 8 minutes and then shuts off for the same amount of time. Water did fill the loop in the drain hose and finally trickles out the end after an hour or so. It took 3 1/2 hours of running like this to get the RH down to below 55%. If the compressor would stay ON, I'm sure that it would have reached 55% much sooner.

    The SFA claims that unlike others will work below 65F but it seems either the defrost switch is defective or that claim is untrue.

    Another one for Teddy Bear.
    Sorry about the slow response.
    It several lbs. of moisture to saturate the coil/pan and hose to drain. As the temp/%RH declines the pints/hour declines. 8 minutes is a minimum on cycle but the control is functioning.
    I suggest catching the actual moisture removed per hour with the actural ^F/%RH. We can pass judgement on the actual verses the our expectations.
    http://www.thermastor.com/HI-E-DRY-100/
    This is a similar commercial unit with similar capacity. Check the specifications sheet for capacity at the cooler drier conditions. I would expect one lb. per hour at 60^F, 50%RH. Keep in mind that meters may have slight inaccuracies at these conditions. Temp/%RH in/out after 6-7 mins. also helps.
    Keep us posted on the actual lbs.per at the condition.
    Bear Rules: Keep our home <50% RH summer, controls mites/mold and very comfortable.
    Provide 60-100 cfm of fresh air when occupied to purge indoor pollutants and keep window dry during cold weather. T-stat setup/setback +8 hrs. saves energy
    Use +Merv 10 air filter. -Don't forget the "Golden Rule"

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Warren, MI
    Posts
    964
    Quote Originally Posted by teddy bear View Post
    Sorry about the slow response.
    It several lbs. of moisture to saturate the coil/pan and hose to drain. As the temp/%RH declines the pints/hour declines. 8 minutes is a minimum on cycle but the control is functioning.
    I suggest catching the actual moisture removed per hour with the actural ^F/%RH. We can pass judgement on the actual verses the our expectations.
    http://www.thermastor.com/HI-E-DRY-100/
    This is a similar commercial unit with similar capacity. Check the specifications sheet for capacity at the cooler drier conditions. I would expect one lb. per hour at 60^F, 50%RH. Keep in mind that meters may have slight inaccuracies at these conditions. Temp/%RH in/out after 6-7 mins. also helps.
    Keep us posted on the actual lbs.per at the condition.
    I neglected to mention one key point here. When I said that the compressor is cycling OFF after 8/9 minutes, the fan is still running during this time. My recording shows around 6A for 8/9 minutes and 8/9 minutes at a bit over 1A. Finally after hours of running this type of cycling the it dropped to 0A. It varies but it starts again it'll do that same 6A/1A cycling for a period of time then again it drops to 0A or completly OFF for a period of time.

    My question is why is the compressor "only" cycling ON/OFF? The defroster switch shouldn't be opening up at a ambient of 63F, correct?

    This is a new SFA last summer replacing a inoperative unit that I couldn't get the local HVAC service suggested by Therm-a-Stor to come out or return my calls. Somebody cut me a sweet deal on a this blemished SFA. The HVAC service finally called after I got the new one.

    I have no idea if this was running this way during last summer when the basement temperature may get up to 72F. I don't cool it with AC during the summer.

    I may have to pop the cover to see quickly if the defroster switch is the culprit. My old SFA had a somewhat similiar problem where the compressor "only" turned OFF after about 2 minutes but that was the overload that developed a high internal resistance, enough to melt the pigtailed wire right through to the copper wire.
    Bill

  9. #9
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    The defrost is working like I would expect. The compressor stops while the fan continues. This allows the ice on the coil to melt and the coil to warm to 53^F. The compressor operates until the coil temp drops to 20^F, which loads the coil with ice. Is there a chance that the meter is reading higher %RH than what you have?
    Regards TB
    Bear Rules: Keep our home <50% RH summer, controls mites/mold and very comfortable.
    Provide 60-100 cfm of fresh air when occupied to purge indoor pollutants and keep window dry during cold weather. T-stat setup/setback +8 hrs. saves energy
    Use +Merv 10 air filter. -Don't forget the "Golden Rule"

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Warren, MI
    Posts
    964
    Quote Originally Posted by teddy bear View Post
    The defrost is working like I would expect. The compressor stops while the fan continues. This allows the ice on the coil to melt and the coil to warm to 53^F. The compressor operates until the coil temp drops to 20^F, which loads the coil with ice. Is there a chance that the meter is reading higher %RH than what you have?
    Regards TB
    Could the coil get to 20F with the ambient at 63F?

    i have two meters, Fluke 971 and a GE Protimeter Hydromaster. I doubt if they both are wrong.
    Bill

  11. #11
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    Location
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    I'm still recording the SFA without touching the settings on the unit. As outside temps started to rise my basement temp did as well. As temp reached 65F, the ON cycles increased to as high as 18 minutes without the compresor dropping out but at the same time, it allowed RH to rise higher before turning ON by a good 5% if not more. Now we're getting some real cool days so I assume it'll start doing the same ON/OFF cycling again.
    Bill

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by wptski View Post
    Could the coil get to 20F with the ambient at 63F?

    i have two meters, Fluke 971 and a GE Protimeter Hydromaster. I doubt if they both are wrong.
    Yes the coil will get to 20^F with 63^F after a slight build up of ice on the coil. The coil temp will be +15^F colder than the dew point of the air entering the dehu. As ice builds, the coil gets colder while removing moisture. At 20^F, the compressor stops while the fan continues until the coil warms to 53^F.
    Catch the moisture removed during this process to check the capacity.
    Keep me posted.
    Got hot and steamy for a couple days, then back to early spring weather.
    Regards TB
    Bear Rules: Keep our home <50% RH summer, controls mites/mold and very comfortable.
    Provide 60-100 cfm of fresh air when occupied to purge indoor pollutants and keep window dry during cold weather. T-stat setup/setback +8 hrs. saves energy
    Use +Merv 10 air filter. -Don't forget the "Golden Rule"

  13. #13
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Warren, MI
    Posts
    964
    Quote Originally Posted by teddy bear View Post
    Yes the coil will get to 20^F with 63^F after a slight build up of ice on the coil. The coil temp will be +15^F colder than the dew point of the air entering the dehu. As ice builds, the coil gets colder while removing moisture. At 20^F, the compressor stops while the fan continues until the coil warms to 53^F.
    Catch the moisture removed during this process to check the capacity.
    Keep me posted.
    Got hot and steamy for a couple days, then back to early spring weather.
    Regards TB
    Thanks, exactly what I wanted to know. Got to figure a way to catch/measure the water. Yes, 80F a little over a week ago and today won't make 50F. Rain ON/OFF for days and my grass needs cutting!
    Bill

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