FX10

**Cagey57** · 04-30-2011, 10:05 AM

If I understand it correctly the FX-10 was/is primarily an OEM device. The FX-05 was first supplied to OEM's (Reznor used a ton of them) and "those" OEM's would not release (make public) the the apd files to controls people.

As long as the equipment supplier will guarantee that you, as the "Control Guy", will get fulll access to the program files logic I think you will be OK.

I , personally, would make dang certain that I had top notch support from the Manufactuers Controls team on the Heat Pumps. The OEM probably has a confidence level with the FX-10 and their control logic so they certainly have people that have "seen it all" with respect to field weirdness.

I might think twice about N2 but the LON functionality Sucks (IMO) on the FX produce line. BACnet might be an option if you can get it that way. Easier to integrate than N2. Also easier to replace if/when N2 products are no longer available.

s2sam you said "JCI is discontinuing the smaller FX product line (FX10 and downward and possible the FX20?)". The FX-20 (JACE200) is a Supervisory Device not a field device. It doesn't make sense to to me that it would be discontined, where did you hear that ?

**s2sam** · 04-30-2011, 03:23 PM

Originally Posted by CCIKelly

<snip>
s2sam you said "JCI is discontinuing the smaller FX product line (FX10 and downward and possible the FX20?)". The FX-20 (JACE200) is a Supervisory Device not a field device. It doesn't make sense to to me that it would be discontined, where did you hear that ?

Good day CCI,

You are absolutely correct that the FX20 is not part of the list of FX controllers that I was told that are being discontinued. In my original post I included the statement "possibly the FX20" to indicate that I was unsure of this device. However, I did indirectly clarify my original comment in a later post with a list of what I was told that would be discontinued (FX05/06/07/10/14/15/16 & MD20 ) which did not include the FX20 of which I assumed would it clarify my earlier post. I assumed wrong and so my apologies for the confusion!

Cheers,

Sam

**Chris_Worthington** · 04-30-2011, 03:28 PM

FX + LON = Disaster,,,, just sayin......

FX + BACnet = better, but not by much..........

Good luck on your en devours as mine and others have not panned out so well in regards to this product

**Cagey57** · 04-30-2011, 04:30 PM

prostock,
We sell the product line (FX Field Gear) My moderate experience with the FX-07/14/15/16 has been with N2 and BACnet (commercial Zoning stuff, yuck). A co-worker had had lots of difficulties with the LON versions. After further thought I say go with the FX-10 N2 version. What kind of a Network manager are you planning to use ?

I do have to second Chris's comments.

s2sam, you did clarify, no apology needed. Accept mine as I missed it, sorry !!

I won't be disapointed if the FX-Field Gear goes away as long as we get another N2 device (JCI has implied that we will see an FX-PC N2 version possibly late 2011/early 2012, Really ????) to replace the FX-Field gear/Legacy ASC's.

I guess since N2 is "...going the way of the turd.." as some have put it the massive numbers of legacy devices out there are doomed to obsolesence, NOT !

If you really think about it, almost every manufacturer has some kind of gottcha with their stuff. Carrier, Trane, York (JCI own's them and they don't use JCI controls ?) McQuay etc all have proprietary software. Some allow non-OEM's to buy it, some don't. So explain why N2 is so "Doomed" please ?

Kinda Hi-Jacked, sorry.

**Chris_Worthington** · 04-30-2011, 04:54 PM

Stand alone stuff I really like the FX-07 and the FX-15, BTW

Primarily due to the local display on "a" piece of equipment.

There is NO way "I" would ever again implement anything JCI on a broad scale until some major issues have been proven to be resolved beyond a reasonable shadow of doubt. JMO

**s2sam** · 04-30-2011, 05:58 PM

Originally Posted by CCIKelly

<snip>
s2sam, you did clarify, no apology needed. Accept mine as I missed it, sorry !!

I won't be disapointed if the FX-Field Gear goes away as long as we get another N2 device (JCI has implied that we will see an FX-PC N2 version possibly late 2011/early 2012, Really ????) to replace the FX-Field gear/Legacy ASC's.

I guess since N2 is "...going the way of the turd.." as some have put it the massive numbers of legacy devices out there are doomed to obsolesence, NOT !

If you really think about it, almost every manufacturer has some kind of gottcha with their stuff. Carrier, Trane, York (JCI own's them and they don't use JCI controls ?) McQuay etc all have proprietary software. Some allow non-OEM's to buy it, some don't. So explain why N2 is so "Doomed" please ?

Kinda Hi-Jacked, sorry.

Good day CCI,

Indeed, this may be the subject of another thread, but in response to your comments/questions...

No problems about missing my follow-up post, as I should have been more direct and/or clarified my previous FX-20 comment.

As for N2... if you or anyone else had the impression that I am a N2 doom-sayer, then I must also clarify as I am absolutely not... quite the opposite! Despite what others have stated, I feel that N2 is going to be around for some time either with or without JCI's involvement. I see and speak to so many big boys that have tons of N2 installed which translates to large $$$ invested in the N2 infrastructure. If JCI or others think that these companies/institutions are simply going to rip out and replace perfectly working n2 installs in order to use some new gear, then they are talking to a whole lot different group than I speak with. For the people I speak with, they have just too much invested to simply throw it all away for simply no net gain (i.e. economic payback given the replacement cost and new features... and possibly new bugs ... introduced). Do I think N2 is going to around forever? No, but I do see it around for sometime if for anything to allow some of those customers with large n2 investments to transition over to newer technologies.

On a secondary note, because of the smaller FX controller discontinuance, I have a number of my larger customers having my firm prepare possible custom solutions for them. Consequently, even if JCI does punt N2, I am certain that there will be options available... either by my firm or I am sure by others.

Cheers,

Sam

**prostock** · 05-02-2011, 04:43 PM

Sam is right that the FX05,7,14,15,16 line is being discontinued. But it is on a sales basis. I am not sure if the FX10 is inclusive of this, as it seems to be a OEM type product. I could not buy one from my ASI rep/supplier and I am and ASI. I will ask the JCI rep to clarify.

They currently do not support N2 in there PGC? product line (that looks like a great product) but a JCI rep for the product did tell us that they have considered it and may come out with it. I am really hoping they do. I could sell 50 of them tomorrow.

**BACnet** · 05-02-2011, 05:00 PM

s2sam,

I'm sure that everything you have said is true. There is a huge install base for N2 and making people rip our perfectly good controllers on a massive scale is not in anyone's best interest.

But from where I'm standing that simply means that N2 gateways will be around for a very long time. I'm not sure brand-new N2 controllers will be.

But it's all just a hunch right now.

-B

**Chris_Worthington** · 05-02-2011, 05:01 PM

All these warm and fuzzies and yet you are continuing down this road.....

Good luck and God bless ya

**prostock** · 05-02-2011, 05:34 PM

CCIKelly, I have an FX20 in the building right now, with an FX07 on N2 doing some small tower work. (I plan to get started with that) I will certainly have to add numerous additional FX20/60/70 devices to handle the 580 heat pumps that this project will eventually have, just to handle the address count. I expect point count to be about 10 per heat pump, so I will be at about 6000 points when done. 9 floors w/ 1 trunk per floor = 4 to 5 FX60s when complete, carrying about 1200 points each. That is if there is 10 per unit, and the points wont do much. Mass, but staggered s/s routines, temperature status and alarm monitoring, some mass setpoint changes. We will certainly need FXServer by the end. See any big problems with this plan? Anyone?

**Chris_Worthington** · 05-02-2011, 05:40 PM

You have "A"single device that costs squat tied into a JACE that could not even think about taking on an additional 580 nodes and yet???

Why??

Why not re-think this knowing what you know now?

**prostock** · 05-02-2011, 05:54 PM

I am open to suggestions. I am not the king of this stuff but I need to be in the face of my customer. That is why I am on here looking to learn and chat with the folks who have taken the butt-kickins. How would you approach this project? The only constant at this time is FX supervisory.

**Chris_Worthington** · 05-02-2011, 06:00 PM

Originally Posted by prostock

I am open to suggestions. I am not the king of this stuff but I need to be in the face of my customer. That is why I am on here looking to learn and chat with the folks who have taken the butt-kickins. How would you approach this project? The only constant at this time is FX supervisory.

Why not tell them the truth about it and go from there???

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