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  1. #1

    Automated Logic U551

    I'm integrating U551's to a Niagara JACE via Bacnet MSTP. I've noticed that I can't communicate to U551's directly but I can with the LGE still connected via Bacnet/IP. I still have the UNI/16 controllers talking on the CMnet back to the LGE. I noticed when I discover the point via Bacnet/IP I found that I'm not able to find a space setpoint, looking at the logic view in webcrtl looks like I need to change the program but looking at the help file in webcrtl I can't download memory from webcrtl. I am wondering what my options are, if anybody have any ideas that would be great.

    Thanks in advance

  2. #2
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    U551 is just an IO board with some default algorithms if communication fails. UNI holds the program. Is the system native WebCTRL or a Supervision upgrade? If upgrade you will need the original Supervision software to make changes. Setpoint is probably buried in the the LS Pro object unless using thermistor for zone temp. If it is a Supervision upgrade the BACnet objects will be minimal.

    kontrol out
    "Open is as open does." - Forrest Gump
    "Can't we all just get a Lon?" - Garry Jack
    "BACnet: integration or interrogation?" - The Janitor
    "Open protocols? You can't handle open protocols!" - Nathan R. Jessup
    “What’s that? Aaa… open protocols? Don’t talk about…. open protocols? Are you kidding me? Open protocols? I just hope we can hardwire an interface!” - Jim Mora http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7fjDS0jKiE

  3. #3
    I pretty sure this site never had supervision loaded was always webcrtl. This site was install in mid 2000's.

  4. #4
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    Check you password level, is it an admin level password? If you're connecting directly to the U551's they don't have the programming, as KP said, just standalone internal algorithims. The UNI has the programming and it is probably set up ARC156 BACnet so you may need to go through the LGE.

    You should be able to download the program(s) to the UNI with WebCTRL, so I think you may need an admin password. Can you open Eikon Logicbuilder and load a program for the equipment controlled by the U551?

  5. #5
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    Looks like Freddy-B was able to...

    http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=519662
    "It's not that I'm smart, it's that I stay with the problem longer”
    Albert Einstein

  6. #6
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    From the screenshot the integration was via BACnet (not the older ALC CMnet protocol) which would have been through the LGE via BACnet/IP or BACnet/Ethernet as I don't believe J-Boxes support BACnet over ARC156 to go directly to the ALC controllers. The VAV supervisor is an older UNI59 and like the UNI16 and UNI32 is the brains/supervisory controller with U line controllers below it. These would be the older Supervision system as the UNI59 was obsolete before WebCTRL was released and as stated above would have limited BACnet objects. Nothing special about integrating a BACnet system into Tridium.

    If you want to learn more about the ALC programming environment more can be found here:
    http://eikonforeducators.automatedlogic.com/eikon

    kontrol out
    "Open is as open does." - Forrest Gump
    "Can't we all just get a Lon?" - Garry Jack
    "BACnet: integration or interrogation?" - The Janitor
    "Open protocols? You can't handle open protocols!" - Nathan R. Jessup
    “What’s that? Aaa… open protocols? Don’t talk about…. open protocols? Are you kidding me? Open protocols? I just hope we can hardwire an interface!” - Jim Mora http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7fjDS0jKiE

  7. #7
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    Yea, I saw the LGE and the M module in there. I was more or less going off of his comments of "Its possible to do it with the older stuff. The UNI was a PITA....but doable."

    I took it as he was able to get into the UNI. Couldn't he just change the UNI to Legacy-MS/TP and see what BACnet points showed up in the UNI since the programs actually reside there?
    "It's not that I'm smart, it's that I stay with the problem longer”
    Albert Einstein

  8. #8
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    From my experience Legacy (CMnet) is proprietary. On the older stuff only BACnet supported at the module level is ARC156. I could be wrong but have never found a ARC156 router other then ALC.

    kontrol out
    "Open is as open does." - Forrest Gump
    "Can't we all just get a Lon?" - Garry Jack
    "BACnet: integration or interrogation?" - The Janitor
    "Open protocols? You can't handle open protocols!" - Nathan R. Jessup
    “What’s that? Aaa… open protocols? Don’t talk about…. open protocols? Are you kidding me? Open protocols? I just hope we can hardwire an interface!” - Jim Mora http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7fjDS0jKiE

  9. #9
    I can see the Bacnet points from the U551 (Heat Pump) but I can't seem to send it a space setpoint. I've look at the logic on WebCRTL and found that setpoint come from the Zone Setpoint Plus block. I don't see anywhere where I can right a bacnet space setpoint or offset into this block to control the unit. Is there any way to send and control this unit to space setpoint or offset?

    Thanks in advance,

    Justin

  10. #10
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    The setpoint microblock is not a Bacnet microblock. In order for you to do an integration so you can change setpoints the current ALC program for U551 will have to be changed.

  11. #11
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    Like I tell my customers who think that BacNet is a do-all integration, the first time that you have to replace a module and download memory, or you need to change a program, you're screwed. These integrations take both parties, especially on startup. Later down the road there will be issues like you have here. Many times the older systems were not ready to be seen by other system, they had to be configured to do so which takes the original vendor.

    Keep in mind that many Supervision systems were before BacNet was invented, if you're talking U551, hopefully you're using Supervision InterOp which was later than Supervision. As far as seeing zone temp, the microblock does not output BacNet, you have to hang a BV status in the program which will require a rewrite.
    HotRod


    Controls..some days your a hero, some days your a zero. Direct acting since 1992.

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