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Thread: Trane Interface

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    10

    Frown

    I am currently trying to interface to an old trane system through bacnet/IP with another control system. The site we are interfacing to is a summit system with 4 BCU's ( 3 BMTs and 1 BMTW ) with about 90 vav boxes. the 4 BCU's talk Bacnet/Arcnet over Coax. i am thinking of using a BR2 from Cimetrics to talk to the system but have some questions? If I use the arcnet to ip router can i see all the vav boxes since the cimetrics router just changes any info from arcnet to ip? How do i map point as bacnet points if the cimetrics router wont show me the vav boxes? is there any other way better to interface to this system to get all the points other than upgrading the BCU's (BMTS to BMTW )? ANY HELP WOULD BE GREATLY APPRECIATED! Thanks

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    1,218
    you will not see the vav boxes because they are sitting on proprietry comm4 link. You only see the bacnet points that are created in BCUs that reference the VAVs. So if you need to create more points you have to do it using tracer summit software and in the BCUs.
    Instead of using BR2 read through this topic:
    http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?threadid=76559

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    33
    There is a limit of how many "Bacnet" points you can create.
    It's around 250 of each type. Analog Input, Analog Output, Binary Input, Binary Output (binary may also be called "digital"). It get's interesting... Not sure if thats per bcu or per the system. I do know that after the software tells you "you have created too many" they won't transmit the values.

    This will limit your point count depending on how many VAV's you have and what you wan't to do.
    Just displaying Zone Temp, sending cool/heat (occupied) setpoints, and occupancies may be an issue.
    There are more effective ways to do it, but you will need the summit software.

    You can use the Summit Software on the otherside of the router (Bacnet/ip side) and see everything.
    You can also see the Bacnet point's in your other system using the Summit software, if the other system also talks bacnet (oh man im looping around into a circular reference I think...)

    What is the other system you are trying to interface to?



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    10
    We want to get away from using the summit software and interface. We are using Reliable Controls. Most the points will be pulled into a mach global and etherlink. The reliable software has a nice bacnet discovery menu that im probly guessing we will only beable to see the 4 bcu's and have to map in the vav points to the BCU's, some points are already mapped in. does anyone know how to map in points on a trane BCU with the summit software... I create a new AO, AI,BO, or BI but how do i link it to a vav box setpoint?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    1,218
    every point in the BCU has a referencer box.
    click on the referencer box, you will see a list of all UCMs then pick the VAV UCM that you want then it will pop up the points that can be referenced from that UCM.

    now your point is mapped.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    293
    Under the VAV editor(not the graphic) you will see the occupied sepoints.There a small box with two arrows on it click it. Then another box with three dots appears- click it and you can reference it to an AO. Make sure you check the box labeled Disable Thumnbwheel. This will tell the VAV not to use its local zone sensor thumbwheel setpoint.

    Also look at you NVM and VM percent under objects and properties. Trane recommends that these values stay above 20 percent. The bad part about BMTS is its limited in space and not expandable.

    Delta makes a nice inexpensive BACnet router. Not sure the part number but we've used it a couple of times with good success. Contact your local Delta rep and see what's he got.

    Good Luck.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Janesville WI
    Posts
    419
    Ok guys I have this new chevy truck, I dont want to use the pc that came with it I want to use this ford pc I need the right cable so that this works and then need to program it so it thinks it a chevy hmm hmm ok Im a bit of a smartass here but realy why dont you buy the right software for the right end controls Trane makes this hard to do for a reason, and we all know there controls are very pricy. The only way I have ever seen this work good with out using there software is if you put it on the owners web then is a cake walk.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    9,564
    ....score another one for LNS Lonworks then jti-.

    Some Teletrol guys wrote a driver that kisses the BCU goodbye. Fieldserver has to have something I'm thinking as well.

    ... if you are smart enough it's not so hard. I mean, their engineers did it so really ....


  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    33

    Frown

    Originally posted by sysint
    ....score another one for LNS Lonworks then jti-.

    Some Teletrol guys wrote a driver that kisses the BCU goodbye. Fieldserver has to have something I'm thinking as well.

    ... if you are smart enough it's not so hard. I mean, their engineers did it so really ....

    sysinit, your a professional member?
    Love the way you bad mouth Trane at every turn. Very professional.

    You do know that people have problem's with Lon, LNS, JCI and every other manufacture out there right?
    And yes, even Trane. Get a clue, it's not the hardware (*most of the time). It's the people that program it and use it that make a control system successful.


  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Janesville WI
    Posts
    419
    Ditto Junkman

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    4
    I've seen these so called "drivers" that allow you to break
    a Trane Comm-4 protocol. There is an inherent problem with the way they write to the Trane controllers. Let's just say
    you can buy yourself more problems and a new controller if this is not done right. Field Server is such a good customer of Trane that I somehow doubt they will be interfacing a Bridge to Comm-4 anytime soon. Use the right
    controls and save yourself the problems. Very few people
    out here can give you the right support with a system made up of everybodys parts and pieces.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    10
    I Had a job were we needed to send 2 points to a trane summit system and we need like a few points to read i think it was 5 points so we connected to trane over rs232 ptp bacnet.... I found out that trane could not talk ptp bacnet due to a bug in their implimentations. At first it was suggest to me ( by a trane guy ) to get a device from field server that will fix the problem, but luckly our factory was able to edit their firmware to get it to work and it works great. We are passing about 58 points no prob but trane would not fix their problem has anyone else encountered this? just out of curiosity.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    33
    Sounds like you got bad information there ddcfreak.
    Trane talks PTP Bacnet all day long, and has since day 1.
    What you need to find out is what firmware revision they are running in the BCU. If it's less then 5.0 it would need to be upgraded.
    But, if it was less then 5.0 then the Trane guy would need to use OS/2 version of summit to talk to it.
    There is a thing in BACnet were panels "wait" to be contacted, and the question is, who initiates the contact?
    This could have been easily fixed by watching the serial port traffic and talking to trane tech support (since this was obviously beyound the trane guy you got).
    Sorry you had such a bad expirrence, better luck on the next one.
    How would your factory be able to edit the trane firmware?

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