upgrading from 10 seer to what is worth it?

[trekrulz]

i have a 10 seer split system that has to be replaced. Economicly speaking, when is it worth paying out the extra cost to replace the inside and outside system with a higher seer. When will it pay for itself?

[t527ed]

to many variables to answer that. location, electric costs, house size etc, etc, etc

[trekrulz]

north carolina, heat pump, its the upstairs unit

[dash]

It's always "worth it" to replace both,otherwise,you have no idea what SEER you have,or how well it will work ,or last.


As for what SEER is best,Look first at the comfort it will provide<higher SEER more features and benefits,plus the envirofriendlyness of higher SEER.

[dpatty]

Changing the whole system is definately worth it. What systen to choose and what seer is something you need to discuss with a contractor that know how to handle your enviromental conditions. Sometmes a 10 seer is a great choise for a home and others the highest seer and hspf rating is the only choice that makes good since.

The best advice is to talk to as many contractors as possible before deciding on who you hire. After that somebody will stand out as a quality contractor. Go with him/her and his/her recommendations

[Irishmist]

dpatty: you stand by your statement to 'talk to as many contractors as possible?" I don't know about where you are but we have over 300 licensed hvac contractors in the metro area. Would you want to be #135 that this person called? Even worse how would you like to have been #134?
The homeowner also cannot make any distinction between contractors that they contact. That is why I would like to see an industry clearinghouse that is overseen by the participants. Not ACCA. Not BBB. A group that believes in providing the highest level of service, and integrity and is will to put their mone where their mouth is. We need to provide the public with a basic level of expectation otherwise they will start looking at price as a determining factor. And, as we all know, you will get what you pay for, and possibly have to pay late for what you really needed.

[dash]

John,

How about a group that provides ,one year satisfaction or your money back,in wruting?

[simpleman]

Originally posted by dash
John,

How about a group that provides ,one year satisfaction or your money back,in wruting?

I dont know about that one Dash,it seem to me a statement like that would draw a bunch of unwanted to the table.

[dan sw fl]

Originally posted by trekrulz
north carolina, heat pump, its the upstairs unit

To answer in a more simplistic, pragmattic manner...
K.I.S.S.: What is your monthly electric $ use?

FYI:
North Carolina rates are ~$0.09+/kW

You may save 15% ( 8% for the 1 upstairs unit)
of COOLING costs (~1/2 of total bill) from June-September using 12 SEER.

Winter Savings?
Current H.S.P.F. ___
... New H.S.P.F. ___

Payback may be speculated as ~6+ to 14 years?

[dash]

Originally posted by simpleman

Originally posted by dash
John,

How about a group that provides ,one year satisfaction or your money back,in wruting?

I dont know about that one Dash,it seem to me a statement like that would draw a bunch of unwanted to the table.

We started doing it years ago,then our Distributer,took it statewide(except panhandle),very few claims.

Carrier Fcatory Authorized Dealer program now requires it,and it's funded in part by Carrier.

The reason I brought it up,is you'd think people,would use this a a deciding factor,some do,but when you are in the selling situation,they aren't all impressed


One of our salesmen explains there reaction this way,"do you ever buy somrthing new ,Expecting to have problems?"


I think it's worthwhile,but don't expect it to make a big increase in sales.

[Irishmist]

Dash, now THAT'S what I,m talkin' bout!

I know I sound like a broken record, but guys, we HAVE to do something to give the public a REASON to work with you and I as opposed to the hacks! If I see some no-name truck in the neighborhood doing a changeout on a weekend, do I call it in? You bet your a--! And it's not sour grapes. I just everyone playing on the same level. If I guy wants to risk a fine and his license to cowboy jobs in he best be prepared to pay the fiddler!

Let's decide among us to take the high road. Just follow me here. This is for example purposes only. Let's say a group from this site (we certainly represent a tremendous cross section of the U.S) takes the position that if we do an install from an inquiry that came through this site, we will not only stand behind our work, but if there are problems and we cannot address them to the customer's satisfaction, they get a complete refund of their purchase price AND keep the equipment / system. Now WE would determine what the parameters were, i.e. a manual J load calculation was performed AND turned over the homeowner upon completion of the installation (not before; no free engingeering.) All OEM information as well as warranty information is compiled and turned over with installation date clearly noted for their records. Would include a 5 year service program to check on the annual annivesary date of the installation (or as close as possible).

The guidelines would be clearly stated for both our and the homeowners benefit. We wouldn't need the factory to participate. And, we could make this offer on any and all systems, not just limiting it to top of the line purchases.

This is just a quick example to illustrate what I'm talking about. It could easily be fine tuned. It wouldn't take much to distinguish ourselves since as you know the majority of us are lumped into the same status quo within the industry.

Thoughts? p.s. this would not expose this site to any liability since the customer woule be making the contact. This site would only serve as a point of access. No one would be discriminated against. If you want to participate, you follow the rules. If you don't follow the rules, YOUR OUT!

If we are really willing to stand behind our work, which when you think about it, we do anyway, we shouldn't be hesitant in taking a proactive approach.

[simpleman]

I think the salesman hit it right on the head,that true for
trying to sell them on a maintence plan as well.

Talk about a hard sell.Most of my customer would get all disfigure in the face and said well I have you lock in for a year anyway and if I'm not happy,believe me you're not going to be happy either.LOL.

[simpleman]

Trekrule sorry we highjack your thread,but we see you got
your answer several post ago.

Ok..now that out of the way,John I hear what you are saying
however in the real world it will never happen.
Even if all of us were on the same page,it would be hard to get the homeowner there,with all the different opinion
out there.

Example..Just last week I was call out on a estimate and the guy added several room to his home.He improved on the insulation in the walls,attic,and floor and also replace all the windows.
And on top all that he had a the furnace and ac replace about two years ago.

I did a load calc on the home and his system he had in place would still do the job on the hottest or coldest day of the year.
We even perform a test on his old distribution system that was short 400 cfm of 1600 cfm that was require to began with.We even explain the reason for his discomfort because of leaking ducts in the attic and just a poor design to began with.

We offer a all new distribution system with zone dampers and seal with mastic,balance and a performace test on the system when it was all said and done.

Did we get the job..No,because he had two other opinion that never did a load calc and,they just wanted to leave the other duct system in place and just add a new system
for the new addition.

Now maybe it could have been that our guys was not dress to impress,or it could be the guy was just looking for the
cheaper price,who knows.

All I know that most customer I come across dont care about
the numbers,and even with the facts right in front of them they will still choose price over quality.

Just take goodman as an example,need I say anymore.Ok Robo
I'm sorry if that offended you.

[dpatty]

I hear ya John but what else can he do. One of the largest companies here is one of the worst you can hire and they just seem to get bigger every year. I don't claim to have a good answer for this but talking to more than the first one you blindly land your finger on is just a crap shoot with lots of crap to be found. Atleast calling a few will give him some choise and better odds.

[trekrulz]

it's ok to hijack, i'm enjoying it. My two cents.... i'm a customer who wants quality to go into his home. I thought the home warenty would cover it....NOPE!!! So i'm stuck using their contractor and their equipment when i was lead to beleve i had it covered though insurance. I get the run around from everyone except my family. Their pretty consistant.... "Daddy i'm hot, when will the house be fixed." So not all of us are looking for cheap. Some of us are looking for Long term quality and guidence and can't seem to find it. My only concern in dealing with all of these people at this point.... is to find someone who will at least bring the Vaseline.

[dpatty]

If you decide to go with a new system be sure to get something good. 2 stage systems may cost more to buy but cost far less to own and have great humidity removal capability. Happy hunting!

[docholiday]

How is a two stage machine more efficient? I agree with comfort but 2 stage effieincy will have to be explained to me.

[simpleman]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by trekrulz
[B]it's ok to hijack, i'm enjoying it. My two cents.... i'm a customer who wants quality to go into his home. I thought the home warenty would cover it....NOPE!!! So i'm stuck using their contractor and their equipment when i was lead to beleve i had it covered though insurance.

This I dont understand..I mean if the insurance company not paying for it..then how do they have any say so in the matter?

P.s...We professional dont use the v stuff..we prefer the stuff thats start with the K,I mean after all we want your experience to be a comfortable one.

[dan sw fl]

Originally posted by trekrulz
Some of us are looking for Long term quality and guidance and can't seem to find it.

Many firms are reliable and honest ( but not cheap).
Try a Lennox or TRANE dealer.

http://www.hvacopcost.com/
(Heat Pump evaluation is not working accurately for me).

PAYBACK for going from 10 SEER to 12 SEER is most likely
> 5 years and less than 10 years.

Assuming 12-SEER cost is ~ 25% more than 10 SEER.

[dpatty]

The very high seer is accomplished with the system running in low stage with a very over sized coil. when a 4 ton 2 stage is running in low mode it is a 2 ton and still using that 4 ton coil. beyond that it would be very difficult to explain atleast for me. I understand it in tech terms but laying it out in laymans terms doesn't seem to come out right.

One advantage of 2 stage that you may like is it can be sized for maximum load and still maintain proper comfort and air quality levels. This means you could possibly go for a little larger unit that can cool your home more quickly when needed or for when you have several guests. A properly sized system will sometimes have trouble keeping up on the hottest days under some conditions.

Hope this helps with your decision.