carrier vs trane

[galaxystar2]

Hi I'm a newbie to this site.
I need a new system for my 1500sf rancher with no basement. I received some estimates and it was either a Carrier comfort 80 gas furnace with a performance series 13 seer puron versus the
Trane XR80 furnace with the XR12 13 seer ac. The trane has r-22. both have similar warranties and similar pricing.

Thanks in advance

[dash]

I'm partial to the Carrier,but either way,I'd go R410a/Puron.

Check http://www.410a.com before You decide.


Also consider being sure you get a variable speed indoor fan motor,and a good/great control system,like Carrier's Infinity.

[BaldLoonie]

Of course I'm partial to Trane (of the 2 anyway) and would much prefer R22. Just remember that the website dash mentions is put out by Honeywell, a big maker of R410a so far from impartial

Key is don't use builder grade equipment, find the best installer who properly sizes it.

dash, slightly off the subject, if some R410a leaks out of a loose TXV fitting, is it necessary to recover and start fresh or can a few pounds of R410a be put in the system with no problem?

[dash]

It can be topped off with no problem.


Baldie,Is there anything on that site that you'd say if false??

[Edited by dash on 07-06-2005 at 04:12 PM]

[galaxystar2]

Thanks dash. I went to the site and it says that puron has only been in residential systems since 1995. Will these systems last 20 or more years like you find with the r-22? How do I know if an installer has expertise with puron?

[dash]

In Florida ,a lot of systems don't make it to 20 years.I'd say the life is the same,the Puron/R22 Copeland scroll has been more dependable then the R22,but that may be inpart due to better installs.

Most mfrs. are requiring some training to be able to buy Puron/R410a systems,best bet ask them.If they down the product,and you want to use them,go with the R22.

[mr big]

Both brands are good. Buy the Puron or R410. Get another Trane dealer to quote you the Trane XL14i with R410 if this dealer will not. R22 is being phased out. It will be against the law for any manufacturer to put R22 into a new unit in 2010. Thats not far off. Don't buy obsolete.

[galaxystar2]

Thanks for the replies.
mr big, I see from the brosure that the XR12 comes with R410a. Is it a good product? Also I have some small kids and the trane guy told me that the trane is better protected than carrier from kids ruining the condensor. Is this really a concern?

[beenthere]

Originally posted by galaxystar2
Thanks for the replies.
mr big, I see from the brosure that the XR12 comes with R410a. Is it a good product? Also I have some small kids and the trane guy told me that the trane is better protected than carrier from kids ruining the condensor. Is this really a concern?

Did your kids destroy your old unit.
Do you normally see them playing with sticks, or rocks around the condenser.

Thats a pretty desperate sales tactic, IMO.

[dash]

Ditto.

[BaldLoonie]

I didn't see anything false but still don't see the need to rush into the stuff yet. I realize Honeywell & Carrier pretty well have everyone snowed into R410a and the upstarts won't have a chance with their alternatives. But for now it seems at least 1/2 of us (unscientifically from reading the posts here ) are perfectly content with our R22 systems.

[smoochie]

I have the Trane XL90 and XR11 almost completely installed (they started the job on June 27th). The evaporator coil lists either r22 or 410. I suppose if you go with the r22 condenser (like I did) and when it has out lived it's cooling mechanical life one can switch to what is leagally available without changing the evaporator (not sure).

What or who ever you go with get a detailed bid on the job and don't worry about watching them like a hawk.....based on what I've been through.....the average consumer will get shorted if they aren't on the ball...

Here is what I've had to deal with....

No one told the installer about a media air cleaner for the job...(got it in writing)

They were going to run uninsulated duct...(contract says insulated supplies and returns)

They were going to run 5 supplies.....(contract says 7)

They were going to let the condensate drip into my crawl space....(contract says to an approved drain)

Installer had put furnace in place and left to make up the return plenum....I had to call him and tell him that it was the WRONG furnace. I should have just let him complete the job first then tell him to try again. (just for laughs and giggles)

Remember ..... get everything in writing!!!
Because in the contractors world, when all is said and done, usually a hell of a lot more gets said than done!

[trane]

Originally posted by BaldLoonie
I didn't see anything false but still don't see the need to rush into the stuff yet. I realize Honeywell & Carrier pretty well have everyone snowed into R410a and the upstarts won't have a chance with their alternatives. But for now it seems at least 1/2 of us (unscientifically from reading the posts here ) are perfectly content with our R22 systems.

I could not have said it better myself, I think as time goes by there will be more changes and improvements in the R410a units. It happens with everything, the longer they are out the better they get. Remember the first 90% furnaces?

[dash]

Well,then half of us are right and half are wrong ,time will tell.Seems to me ,a few years ago it was 90% to 10% in favor of R22,I love to read some of those old posts.

[Irascible]

I am most definitely not the cross platform wiz that you guys are. So please tell me if I got the pictures wrong. If not, then this would be a representation of the two brands.



Now before I say anything, I think I've expressed my ambivalence about brands enough that even you Dash should be able to acknowledge my impartiality. I even used a bigger picture for Carrier. :^) I just don't tell people not to worry about brand. 95% of the time I tell them as much while not bothering to tell them I prefer Trane. That's more than can be said for the Carrier water carrier.

While I do loathe the average salesman, and while I'm sure all of them have lied in one form or another to this customer, as far as I can tell the comment about the chassis was the truth. And unless he worded it like this...
"Buy the Trane because if not your children will utterly DESTROY you air conditioner."
...then I see no desperation - just a fact. The Trane unit IS better protected. Salesmen are wont to point out any little niggling detail that will give them an edge no matter how unimportant in the big picture. Just like some technicians are wont to ham it up about R-22’s supposed obsolescence.

I was a service man almost exclusively for nearly ten years. I saw used system after used system. There are PLENTY of exposed coils that have been mildly to severely trashed. I saw one where a dog had literally bent the entire surface area over by scratching at it. Obviously it wasn’t a Trane. Even roof top units get their share of abuse despite the fact that they’re on the roof. But despite all that I agree that it isn't a major factor.

If you're reading this galaxystar2 (and I know you are :^)) then what you really need to do is be frickin paranoid about which contractor you pick. Read the first link in my sig. That's only a partial list. I don't have time or energy to do the whole thing. Read the third link as well. It's HVAC gospel and should be printed in red letters. This whole Carrier vs. Trane thing is nothing but a distraction. You're mission, if you choose to accept it, is to find the best contractor. If by chance they all seem kind of the same to you then with due respect you haven’t educated yourself enough. A truly top notch contractor is a rare gem. The old “get three estimates from contractors in the Yellow Pages” routine doesn’t often turn one up.

[Irascible]

Since you guys are talking 410-A.

Courtesy of go_redskins in this thread is THIS study. I'm not drawing any conclusions yet. But it is mighty interesting. Has that study been discussed before?

[beenthere]

Ok baldie:

First, what are doing up so late at night.

If you really want a protected coil, Rheem has a sturdier chassis. ( I know, it wasn't one of the original brands of the OP)

And its still just sounds desperate to say oh you got kids, you want a protected coil, so brand x is the one you need.
Thats the way the post sounded to me anyway.

And you are one of the least brand bias.


I take it you haven't had a r410a course yet?

[mr big]

Galaxy, since you asked, I will respond. Let me say that I was a Carrier rep for 25 years. I also entered my Hvac career with a GE distributor. Trane actually purchased the air conditioning division of GE many years ago. I am retired now & not aligned with either manufacturer. I have always been one who tells it like I see it, even when working. Again, I will say both of the quoted units to you are good. I would prefer the R410, especially since R22 is being phased out, & I would like to think I am enviromentally responsible.
Trane units have stronger cabinets than Carrier. The craftsmanship & workmanship is second to none. Trane unit's coils are better protected than Carrier. Trane has steel louvers; Carrier has a wire guard. I lost several large jobs while selling Carrier because either HUD or some other entity would not accept the Carrier wire guard. I have to admit that at your home your unit would not be subject to the abuse as one on a public housing project. The Trane cabinet will look better longer than the Carrier.
Now, lets talk Carrier. Carrier's better units like the one quoted to you are good units. I have the 38YXA''s in my home. I installed them when I was the Carrier Rep. Trane was my competitor then, so there was no contest, even though at that time , I still respected Trane as a competitor. My Carrier 38YXA's have preformed great. I have had some vibration & noise issues out of one of them, but we solved it. The Carrier cabinets will rattle & shake a little, but the units are basically pretty quiet.
The Trane XR comes standard from factory with 10 year compressor warranty, 10 year coil warranty & 5 years on other parts. The Trane XL series comes standard from the factory with 10 years on the compressor, the coil, & other parts. The XL series has the Lexan top on it to prevent leaves & other debris from falling into the unit. Its just added protection.
The bottom line is price difference. While there are differences between brands, there is a point you ask; is it worth it. Trane units usually are a little more expensive than Carrier. Some Trane dealers are extremely uncompetitive. I know dealers that buy both brands & the Trane acually only costs them slightly more.
Aside from this brand talking, it is more important that you get a competent, reliable contractor for your install. Get several estimates & make your choice for whom you are more comfortable with. You , & only you can decide which contractor & which brand is worth the difference.
I would like to have a Lexus, but I drive a Toyota. Both are good vehicles; I just didn't think the Lexus was worth the difference! Good luck on your decision.

[dash]

I've yet to see or here of one of our techs finding a residential system,that was damaged from lacking Tranes "advantage".I have sen many Trane units with plugged coils,due to the fact the owner couldn't see the coil.


I look at almost every system we change out ,everyday ,plus I spent15 years in the field.


I still say,implying your children will damage a non-louvered cabinet,or be injured is BS.Do trane salesmen do this ,yes daily, in our area.Does it help them,I doubt it.The simple answer to it is,lets go look at your existing unit and see if there is any damage,case closed.




Carrier has the clear advanage ,with Puron experience,Thermidistat and Infinity,and will likely stay ahead in the coming years.In the last few years thy have more patents ,then all their competiton.

Has this always been true,no way,but their leadership in variable speed and R410a ,is clear,with real benifits to the consumer.




[Edited by dash on 07-07-2005 at 07:59 AM]