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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    3
    I'm planning to change out my cental air system I only have just air, I'm going to a air & heat pump plus a new furnace too. I'm going with the goodman brand. I was told i should go with preon not freon, can you tell me a lttle more about preon? and does it have to be a special unit or set up for preon? and what you think about goodman brand ?

    Thanks

  2. #2
    goodman great if upfront cost is a factor. but unit will not last more than 8 or 12 years at the most and will have twice the failures as a good system. also all those people to tell you goodman is a good system are the first to tell you about replacing it in a few years.

    i would go puron, and only because most of the systems will be puron after jan.2006 anyway. ones not better than the other. puron is very expensive right now but 10 years from now youll probably see r22 as the expensive refrigerant.

    i would go lennox or carrier.also if you are needing a 5 ton system i would not go better than 12 seer because most
    5 tons will only get 12 seer even with systems matched for 15 seer.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    7,680
    I think you mean Puron not preon and like Freon it is just a name. Puron is R-410A and only Carrier calls it Puron. Freon is Dupont's version of CFC refrigerants such as R-12 and R-22.

    Now should you consider 410A? Thats up to you. Today it costs slightly more than R22 but that may change over the course of 10 Years. I suggest you go see http://www.410A.com to get the details. You need to make that decision on your own based on how you see the future playing out.

    Some (like me) believe you will be paying a premium for R-22 by 2015 which is within service life of your unit. Others, as misguided as they are think there will be some new refrigerant invented that will replace R410A. (I think the higher pressures make them belive there has to be something better, I dont know).

    You will also hear plenty good and plenty bad about brands. You will find if you surf this site and others that the installation is the most crucial in making a system good or bad. Yes there are better brands but if they are hacked in, they will be lame ducks. A goodman installed properly may be just fine for what you want, again if its hacked in you will end up crying foul. Goodman is not, usualy installed by the better installers, this is not to say good installers dont use it, it is a more often than not scenerio. The reason is it's lower price is used in conjunction with lesser quality installtions to win bids that are based soley on price. Yes, as I said there are good installers that use Goodman even participants of this site. I would however submit that if quality and comfort are paramount and the customer is looking for value in something other than the price, they might select another brand for that specific job.

    Goodman has nearly if not the largest market share. We could argue over how they got that but frankly in comes down to cost. If I have a 10 year old brand X and the compressor fails out of warranty, the repair costs may be pretty steep. By design, the Goodman brand is priced slightly above that offering a new unit and all new warranties which is very enticing to those of us who live on a budget. Not many people budget for new HVAC or major repairs. The original brand took a black eye for failing and is priced higher this is why the Goodman (and Jantrol, Luxaire, Armstong, and other brands have flourished. You certainly cant blame the pricipals of these companies for considering increased sales by targeting in this way. Its actaully genious if you think about it. Make your money and sell the company and live like a king the rest of your days.

    [Edited by docholiday on 07-03-2005 at 11:55 AM]

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    West TN
    Posts
    983
    I think you may mean Puron.

    Freon and Puron are actually brand names.
    Sorta like Crisco is grease, but everybody wants
    to call all cooking grease Crisco.

    The most widely used REFRIGERANT for residential applications is R-22.
    R-22 is in the long slow process of being Phased Out.
    Meaning it is considered harmfull to the environment, so
    R-22 is eventually going to be a footnote in air conditioning history. Sorta like R-12 in cars has been replaced by R-134a.
    The Phase out process is going to take years, so there really is no concern as a homeowner to be left out in the cold with no refrigerant available if your system springs a leak.

    The new refrigerant taking the place of R-22 is R-410a

    Which people refer to as Puron

    Puron® is Carrier Corp’s brand name for R-410a
    Suva® 410A is the DuPont brand for R-410A.
    Genetron® AZ20 is Honeywell's R-410a

    I guess its easier to remember Puron since it
    so closely resembles Freon (which is DuPonts brand for R-22.)









  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    West TN
    Posts
    983
    Jeepers, I must be slow.....

    when I started typing my reply, there were no replies up yet... then I submit and find two ahead of me hehe.


  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    7,680
    Me too Airworx got to the point while you and I were pecking at our keyboards.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    NE PA
    Posts
    698
    Just to add my 2 cents as well.

    Goodman today is using good quality brand name components (compressors, valves, electronics, etc)in their systems. Properly installed they should last as long as any other brand name, assuming all things being equal (maintainance, etc). They actually have far more "generic" parts, which are not brand made, which makes spare availability better and cheaper. True they had a bad rep early, but they improved and fought to regain reputation. They have a good warranty and are some of the quieter units on the market today. Key as stated by others is a good install.

    As for the refrigerant, I lean to the R22 still today. A new unit today will most likely not live as long as the ready availability of R22. In other words supply of R22 will be plentyful for many, many years. Production will continue till 2030 at reducing levels, and there will be a lot of recoverd R22 that will be sold as well. The big plus for R22 is that there is a vast majority of technicians who are well experienced on R22, while a much smaller number has some, if any R410a experience. This means for the next few years, the chance of a more experienced guy for service is higher.

    In either case the quality of the installer and technician matters far more than the name or refrigerant type. Ask around fore recommendations, check with the BBB and even "interview" a few contractors before you decide.

    paul

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    68,759
    I thought r22 is now set for early phase out, in 2020.

    As for a better chance of getting an experienced tech for r22, there is just too many systems out there with 2 and more pounds over charge, for that reasoning to hold water. The guy might have 30 years experience, and still over charge the system.

    To each his own.

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  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Concord, CA
    Posts
    2,635
    While it is assumed that R-22 will one day come at a premium over 410A. 410A comes at a premium now. 410A costs me three times as much as 22. But that really shouldn't affect your decision heavy. A properly installed system shouldn't leak so you shouldn't have to worry about having to pay for refrigerant down the road.

    As far as brand goes, I'll echo what they've already said. Goodman is fine. It's the contractor that matters.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    4,970
    Would not be afraid of going either way but I know r-22 's track record of how long the units will last....will just have to see with r410a's higher pressures. thats just my opinion

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    3

    puron units

    I want to know what brands that carry the puron 410a central air units other than carrier.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    68,759
    York, Trane, Lennox, Rheem, etc,etc,etc.

    They pretty much all have it now.
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  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    51

    Thumbs up Thanks for this topic!

    Wow! Quick search for the word "puron" and this thread was at the top and answered my question! Thanks!

    Oh...the question was about the availability of freon based systems in the future. My local AC/Heat company that I have a maintenance contract with was telling me that I might want to consider changing out my system ASAP because Carrier is having some big $1000 off sale to replace freon systems with puron systems. The guy seemed to be saying that it would be difficult to find replacement parts/unit in the future, if something happened to my unit, but that sure doesn't seem to be the message I'm reading here.

    Now I'm a little ticked off that he may be trying to hustle me! The guy was saying I'd have to make a decision soon, because this sale supposedly ends on July 26th....my system may be old, but shows no signs of trouble. I asked about the cost of an estimate and he said it was free, so I'm going to call to get one and see what the guy says and ask more questions about this supposed "parts/system availiability issue". Just might be time to get a new maintenance company!

    As always...thanks to you professionals that take the time to answer all these questions for us homeowners!

    [Edited by lisag on 07-04-2005 at 12:20 AM]

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