Which one to choose? Any advice would be appreciated!

[wenle]

One is ASZ14030 15 SEER-8.5 HSPF 2.5 TON AMANA HEAT PUMP, with 10 years parts and labor and a life time unit replacement. But I am not comfortable with the contrator, he didn't do load cal., when I asked him he just got the footage from me and later I said it is not enough to run the cal., he said he'll call me up and set up an appointment to get all the data needed. however, I am still waiting.

Another company is a good one, the referral I got from the board. He offered me two choices: 1. Trane XR-15 seer 9.0 HSPF 2.5 Ton Heat Pump, variable speed model, 10 years parts 5 years labor. 2. Carrier 13 Seer base unit (I think it is a 25HBB3/25HBB4) 2.5 ton, standard model, with 5 years parts 2 years labor.

Since I am not going to stay in this house for more than 5 years (not definitly sure though), I lean towards Carrier, for it cost less than Trane and it will be installed by a reputable company, the only contractor I contacted that did the load cal. without me asking about it, and good referrals. However, it only has five years parts 2 years labor. Amana has good warranty, however, I don't feel comfortable with the contractor. What would you choose? Any advice would be highly appreciated!

[HPGui]

Please remove prices. That's against the site rules.

Most folks here will say that you should look around until you find a competent contractor you're comfortable with. That will count for more than which equipment you wind up with.

[NCHeat]

The contractor and the quality of the install is WAY more important than the brand. If you're not comfortable with the contractor, that's an easy decision. Can't go wrong with VS especially if humidity is an issue.

[heatsolutions]

One is ASZ14030 15 SEER-8.5 HSPF 2.5 TON AMANA HEAT PUMP, with 10 years parts and labor and a life time unit replacement. But I am not comfortable with the contrator, he didn't do load cal., when I asked him he just got the footage from me and later I said it is not enough to run the cal., he said he'll call me up and set up an appointment to get all the data needed. however, I am still waiting.

Another company is a good one, the referral I got from the board. He offered me two choices: 1. Trane XR-15 seer 9.0 HSPF 2.5 Ton Heat Pump, variable speed model, 10 years parts 5 years labor. 2. Carrier 13 Seer base unit (I think it is a 25HBB3/25HBB4) 2.5 ton, standard model, with 5 years parts 2 years labor.

Since I am not going to stay in this house for more than 5 years (not definitly sure though), I lean towards Carrier, for it cost less than Trane and it will be installed by a reputable company, the only contractor I contacted that did the load cal. without me asking about it, and good referrals. However, it only has five years parts 2 years labor. Amana has good warranty, however, I don't feel comfortable with the contractor. What would you choose? Any advice would be highly appreciated!

Most Carrier dealers can other an extended warranty (up to 10 years P+L) for you if that's what you want, it just costs a little extra. Bottom line though is nothing major should really go wrong with new equipment in the first ten years if installed correctly. I deal Bryant (basically the same as Carrier) and tell my customers not to pay for the extended warranty as it's not cost effective (there are hardly ever any breakdowns in the first ten years).

[wenle]

Most Carrier dealers can other an extended warranty (up to 10 years P+L) for you if that's what you want, it just costs a little extra. Bottom line though is nothing major should really go wrong with new equipment in the first ten years if installed correctly. I deal Bryant (basically the same as Carrier) and tell my customers not to pay for the extended warranty as it's not cost effective (there are hardly ever any breakdowns in the first ten years).

So what you are saying is there is no major difference between a 5 years part 2 years labor and a 10 years parts 5 years labor? Thanks for your reply.

[HPGui]

So what you are saying is there is no major difference between a 5 years part 2 years labor and a 10 years parts 5 years labor? Thanks for your reply.

Amana (which is the brand I've got) has great warranties, and the warranty was a major factor in my purchase decision. However, a lot of the pros on this site will tell you that the quality of the installation is vital, much more than any other factor, including brand. HVAC equipment is not plug 'n play. It's part of a system (ductwork, wiring, thermostats, refrigerant charge, linesets, etc, etc.) The things that can go wrong are endless, and the knowledge needed to figure out what needs to be done next is worth every penny. So take your time and choose wisely.

[wenle]

Amana (which is the brand I've got) has great warranties, and the warranty was a major factor in my purchase decision. However, a lot of the pros on this site will tell you that the quality of the installation is vital, much more than any other factor, including brand. HVAC equipment is not plug 'n play. It's part of a system (ductwork, wiring, thermostats, refrigerant charge, linesets, etc, etc.) The things that can go wrong are endless, and the knowledge needed to figure out what needs to be done next is worth every penny. So take your time and choose wisely.

Thanks for your reply. Are you happy with your Amana, how long is it now? Have you ever got to use the warranty?

[HPGui]

Thanks for your reply. Are you happy with your Amana, how long is it now? Have you ever got to use the warranty?

The dual fuel system that I bought three years ago works very well. My ASZ16 HP has a very high HSPF (the highest I could find at the time.) Even though electricity is expensive where I live, I've still managed to save money every year (20% during heat season and 10% year-round.) The big surprise has been the well-documented total energy reduction (50% in total therms during heating season and 40% year-round.) Not bad!!

This was my first heat pump, so it took a bit of getting used to. Many folks, for example, are not prepared for the sounds that scroll compressors make at startup and defrost. I've had a crankcase heater and a hard start kit installed under warranty, which minimized those issues. The new Amana units now have a feature called Smart Shift which reduces that defrost groaning noise so typical of heat pumps.

Warranty service has been great. An Amana rep even came out to the house to diagnose vibration noise that traveled along the line set and was magnified by the plenum. A larger muffler was installed and the problem went away immediately. In addition to that, having a 10-year parts/labor warranty and a lifetime unit replacement for the original purchaser has given me a lot of peace of mind.

When I look at homeowners posting here and at HVAC equipment comparison websites, it's clear that some don't realize that their problems have nothing to do with the quality of the heat pump units they bought. For example, when switching from furnace-only to heat pumps, some neglect to increase air duct size to match the airflow required by their new unit. The result is excessive noise in the ducts. Or they get the wrong thermostat (one that can't handle all the stages or can't maximize dehumidification.) Or they oversize the unit, which results in excessive cycling and chilly-but-humid rooms in summertime. Or they have the heat pump cutoff set too high, which increases costs by relying too much on expensive auxiliary heat. The list goes on.

You say you might be leaving in 5 years. If so, the quality of the equipment and the professionalism of the install may be less of an issue for you than someone who intends to stick around for the long haul. So I would say this: it's a virtual certainty that you will encounter some kind of post-installation issue that you'll want tweaked or corrected. When that time comes, you really want a reliable customer-friendly pro who knows what he's doing and has lots of satisfied customers to prove it. Be sure you select someone who fits that profile. Good luck.

[skippedover]

In all instances, whether speaking about a car, tugboat or air conditioning equipment, warranty is there to cover premature, unexpected failures. They are 'feel good' extras. Reality is that the companies that push the best warranties have to do it because of the quality or lack thereof, of the installations. So breakdowns are more frequent and warranties are important. Companies which have more highly qualified installation companies representing their products, have significantly less work of premature failures and so don't feel the extreme need to offer long warranties. They do it sometimes to appear more competitive in the market but reality is that those warranties are rarely needed.

An example is a job where the customer accepts the lowest bid they can find and in fact, shops until they find a company that meets their (the customer's) expectation of price. No load analysis is done, the installation is shoddy, the ducts are undersized and the equipment is oversized. The result is a perception by the purchaser that the equipment is faulty when the indoor unit constantly freezes up, the indoor blower motor fails, the compressor fails. All failures caused by lack of airflow due to lack of proper design an installation. Sure, the warranty picked up the tab for all the repairs and will continue to do so for 10-years. But which is better, that warranty work or the one next door who put in a properly load calculation sized system with properly engineered and installed ducts that never has anything but annual service done from day #1 to the 15th year, albeit at a higher installed price?

It's your money and your decision but if it were me (and it has been in other facets of my life) I'd recognize that the need for warranty should be at or near zero and the importance of a proper design and installation is of the utmost importance.

[HPGui]

In all instances, whether speaking about a car, tugboat or air conditioning equipment, warranty is there to cover premature, unexpected failures. They are 'feel good' extras. Reality is that the companies that push the best warranties have to do it because of the quality or lack thereof, of the installations. So breakdowns are more frequent and warranties are important. Companies which have more highly qualified installation companies representing their products, have significantly less work of premature failures and so don't feel the extreme need to offer long warranties. They do it sometimes to appear more competitive in the market but reality is that those warranties are rarely needed.

An example is a job where the customer accepts the lowest bid they can find and in fact, shops until they find a company that meets their (the customer's) expectation of price. No load analysis is done, the installation is shoddy, the ducts are undersized and the equipment is oversized. The result is a perception by the purchaser that the equipment is faulty when the indoor unit constantly freezes up, the indoor blower motor fails, the compressor fails. All failures caused by lack of airflow due to lack of proper design an installation. Sure, the warranty picked up the tab for all the repairs and will continue to do so for 10-years. But which is better, that warranty work or the one next door who put in a properly load calculation sized system with properly engineered and installed ducts that never has anything but annual service done from day #1 to the 15th year, albeit at a higher installed price?

It's your money and your decision but if it were me (and it has been in other facets of my life) I'd recognize that the need for warranty should be at or near zero and the importance of a proper design and installation is of the utmost importance.

If someone argued that company A's equipment was superior and thus needed less warranty protection than company B's, I'd understand that. However, I've heard countless pros on this site maintain that critical parts used by most major brands are essentially the same and manufactured by the same third-party companies. So that leaves us with installation, which is the thrust of skippedover's comment. However, here's the rub. My A+ rated contractor (with the highest price of all the ones I checked) handles Trane, American Standard, Goodman and Amana. Their expertise is the same no matter which brand you buy from them. I'm sure that this situation is not at all unique. I could have gotten a comparable Trane system for less money from another contractor. But I chose Amana for its higher HSPF, a better warranty and a more reliable contractor. So, all things being equal (as they were in my case), a gold-plated warranty cannot simply be viewed as compensation for shoddy workmanship. It's insurance, plain and simple. And insurance is a good thing, even if you never have to use it.

[wenle]

If someone argued that company A's equipment was superior and thus needed less warranty protection than company B's, I'd understand that. However, I've heard countless pros on this site maintain that critical parts used by most major brands are essentially the same and manufactured by the same third-party companies. So that leaves us with installation, which is the thrust of skippedover's comment. However, here's the rub. My A+ rated contractor (with the highest price of all the ones I checked) handles Trane, American Standard, Goodman and Amana. Their expertise is the same no matter which brand you buy from them. I'm sure that this situation is not at all unique. I could have gotten a comparable Trane system for less money from another contractor. But I chose Amana for its higher HSPF, a better warranty and a more reliable contractor. So, all things being equal (as they were in my case), a gold-plated warranty cannot simply be viewed as compensation for shoddy workmanship. It's insurance, plain and simple. And insurance is a good thing, even if you never have to use it.

I think you are luckly that the qualified contractor you had carried both Trane and Goodman. I got estimates from five contractors and only one did load cal. and I feel trust, but they don't carry Goodman nor Amana. I don't have any issue with Goodman or Amana, I think you choosing the best from Amana is a good strategy. If the contractor I trust offer 10 years labor and parts for Carrier, I won't hesitate at all. That is how I got stuck here.

[HPGui]

I think you are luckly that the qualified contractor you had carried both Trane and Goodman. I got estimates from five contractors and only one did load cal. and I feel trust, but they don't carry Goodman nor Amana. I don't have any issue with Goodman or Amana, I think you choosing the best from Amana is a good strategy. If the contractor I trust offer 10 years labor and parts for Carrier, I won't hesitate at all. That is how I got stuck here.

My guess is that people don't buy HVAC equipment because they're in love with the circuit board or reversing valve. All they want is comfort, economy and reliability. While equipment is important, customer satisfaction has just as much to do with balancing airflow to every room, charging the unit properly, and knowing when something's not right. When reading HVAC online customer feedback, you learn that the customers of ALL brands are capable of being pleased as well as disgusted...with the exact same equipment! That tells you that the road to happiness runs through a top-notch contractor (especially one who frequently installs your specific unit -- the actual unit, not just the brand.)

They also must be willing to learn new stuff, not just follow rules of thumb. For example, one of my installers was ready to leave the cutoff setting at about 40 degrees. Heat pumps are rare in my area and old timers who were used to lower efficiency units had somehow settled on this number. Well, my unit is fully capable of economically handling 100% of the heat load well below that. It rarely gets under 30 degrees here and even then, it's not a problem for the HP. So, I had them set the cutoff to 25 degrees. Works just fine. Had I not been interested in how these things work, I'd have lost out on most of the efficiency that I'd paid for.

The upshot of all this is: your happiness with the system you get (and it is a complete system, not just an appliance) depends on having a good relationship with a no-BS HVAC contractor. Good communication and 100% commitment to customer satisfaction. That's what counts.

[seatonheating]

Skip? Is that really you talking?


Implying that a long warranty equates to poor workmanship?? Very false and I take great offense to that.

I am offering my customers a good warranty because it gives them peace of mind. Not because I think they are going to need it excessively.