its hard for techs out there. i find employers dont want to pay more money for experience techs and rather get rid of them. ive been thru 3 employers within the last 5 yrs and every single one i had no say on staying. they all let me go do to my asking raise. i always ask for lower then im worth knowning that it will only take me a few months to get use to the work... 2 of the 3 companies got rid of me right after school (level 1 and level 2 313a refrigeration Ontario)..... (asked for 1 dollar raise) work got slow im the first one to get laid off.... the third one was because he told me that i needed to by my own vacuum pump acelyn tank/hoses and regulator i told him sorry i cant afford it because you dont pay me enough. i think that was a good reason to be fired.... i did not give him aditude at all maybe he was upset that it was true and he knew someone else would fill my spot easily. ( unfortunetely he has been calling me back numberous times for my job back) and i was smart and saying no bc i asked for 2 dollar raise after that one (-: why do employers put techs like me in that position and then it looks bad on my resume....... Cant put that on my resume as a reference and ive been called a person that dont want to commit to one company and unfortunetely i am with a company that is paying me low but the experience is there.... is that right. i remember having someone say its not how much moeny you make its all about the experience and then when I (tech) feel comfortable asking for a raise and not worry about being fire due to raise and im not saying after a few months i mean a year or 2 my gf says ( you gotta suck it up butter cup ) is it really true? opinions please and im kinda worried about asking for a raise now because not knowing if im going to have a job at the end of the day... being unemployed sucks!! how long would you ask for a raise and as an employer what would be a right time to give an employee a raise? i dont live with mommy or daddy and i have my own bills to pay and at this rate i cant commit to a mortage or any long term deal on something nice ie boat car or a nice trip... the feel of uncertainty is in the air for me... )-: makes me work harder! but... always being kicked in the ass..
akelesis .Don't be too niave. Your boss could care less about you and your welfare. You have to be smart to put yourself in a position where you don't have to depend on the Fat Cat behind the desk.
Originally Posted by T Hart
I think you are missing the point. It doesn't matter the cost of living per se.
If you can work unskilled and uneducated at wal-mart for 9 bucks an hour, skilled labor should be paying more. Some employers have not quantified paying more IF a employee has outside skills of HVAC. They state they start an apprentice at 8 or 9 an hour.
Entry level income
T Hart your start from the gutter and work your way up approach is completely and utterly a copout for employers to crap on new employees and tell them that they are worth less than they actually are. Regardless of where you live $9/hr isn't enough to pay the bills unless you are 12 and still get allowance from your parents and live at home where you borrow a vehicle every day to get to work. I have trained technicians of all levels and I will tell you that employers with your attitude towards new recruits in our industry gives all of us a bad name. As long as the employee has gone to tech school and graduated then I wouldn't start them under $10/hr for the very fact that bills and college loans alone are not manageable with $8-$9/hr. The education alone shows their investment in the field and their willingness to go the extra mile to start at a level above an uneducated employee going out into the workforce.
agreed, watch out for the greedy suckers though.
Originally Posted by jholley020
Ok, lets take this to a more simplistic level.
Just to get by, I will list some examples of what I would think are across the country, standard costs to live.
Rent $400 a month
Groceries $160 a month
electric $100 a month
Gasoline $180 a month
Heat $50 a month AVERAGE
Car insurance $50 a month
Water $30 a month
Clothing allowance 60 a month
That comes to $1030 a month or just over 250 a week.
An $8 an hour job at 40 hours pays 320 a week, take out 25% in tax = $240 a week.
You will NOTICE that doesn't include a car payment, Maint. on a vehicle, saving some money for tools, or ANYTHING else. Everything I estimated above, is estimating on the cheap. My monthly bills are not NEARLY that low.
Some of you lowball guys need to get a clue. You'd be the first to pitch a hissy fit about YOUR expenses. If YOU have expenses, what makes you think they don't? Making it day to day with the minimums, still isn't cheap.
I started out at $3 per hour with no benefits and no overtime. I went to school 4 hrs. Every Wednesday night in the Apprenticeship program for 4 years to get a Journeyman's Card and raised to $6 per hour. I've spent the last 35 years working all over this industry from Manufacturing, Wholesale & Retail aspects. I've been very privaledged to be exposed to a lot in a short period of time. I also raised 4 boys (24-31 yrs. Old) who all worked and paid their own way. Two work in HVAC and started from the "gutter", as you say, and one put himself through College doing HVAC work & earned a degree & now teaches at a facility for handicapped. My family comes from a hard working, impoverished past. We've always gone the extra mile wherever we were and whatever we've done. The Fat Cats, Crooks, etc. That you refer to are probably just hard working, dependable guys who got ahead in the same manner. Honest, hard work! Try it!
$9 ( what I said was the minimum I'd start anyone at). X 40 hrs = $360. I offer unlimited overtime . 10 hrs over @ $13.50 = $135 + $360 = $495 per week. Add in health insurance after 90 days, paid Holidays after 6 mos., Week's vacation after a year. And it adds up. Work hard, be dependable, learn all you can and you can get a raise every 6 mos. Lay out, goof off, party, complain, and remain a dunder head and I'll de-hire you in a heart beat. There are people out there who want to be somebody & I'll find them. I have guys who've gone from $9 to $12 in 90 days. Some make more than most owners of HVAC Companies. Attitude = Altitude. If you can't make it on what you're making get a better job or a second job. I did!
entry level pay should be no lower then $12hr with that kind of knowledge. That's even if your covered in tats.
I STARTED WITH NOTHING, AND I STILL HAVE MOST OF IT!
If you don't want to work overtime...you're in the wrong business.
Originally Posted by coilcleaner
Don't get me wrong, I have two young kids myself, and don't enjoy overtime or on-call...but it's part of the job.
Nothing has changed. I started working for a liar and a cheat right out of tech school, the school actually got me the job. I sucked it up for about a year then interviewed and slightly embelished about my experience ( I'm sure they knew) but could tell I was eager to learn and exel. I got that job with more money. I also found out that they would have hired me at a higher rate but I put on the aplication what I was making at the previous company. Word to the wise don't tell them what you were making, tell them what you would like to start at. Since then I got into our Local and it's been uphill ever since. I guess the moral of the story is you got to start some where and you will move up with knowledge and experience.
I didn't write the book I just read it!
Amen! Work hard, be honest & sleep good. .........unfortunately none of us get to have the time for our children we'd like, unless we Rob them of the financial support they need. One of life's cruel ironies. And yes, even if you are building a mansion you have to start with a foundation, suffer setbacks & hardships along the way. Even a shack requires starting
on the bottom. Where there is no adversity there can be no Victory.
495 - 25% tax = 371.25
Originally Posted by T Hart
If you pay attention to what OTHER owners are saying, moonlighting is a no no and you deserve fired.
You offer a raise after six months eh? Mighty generous of you. Do you also allow them to eat the crumbs off the floor too, or pick through the trash can for food?
Fact of the matter is, you aren't offering a wage any better than wal-mart or McD's. After a person works their tale off buying tools, getting an education, and getting the required certs at their own expense, you are offering nothing better than they can get with NO effort. Even a place like wal-mart will give you raises more frequently than you are openly offering.
So remind us all again, WHY someone would want to enter the skilled trades arena....