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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    1

    Confused

    By the grace of God I found this web site and its forum before I plunked down a couple grand on anything!

    My wife and I bought a home about 2 years ago. Knew the furnace was reeeeeeally old and inefficient, but couldn't finagle getting a new one as part of the contract. Now we're getting ready to start a family and I'd prefer to get this done and out of the way while we're both still working full-time and our only "kid" is our bullmastiff.

    We live in Columbus, O-hi-o, which has a relatively short summer (highs in the 90's for a month, month and a half) and can be rather chilly (in the teens) in the winter. Our house is about 50 years old and 2200sq ft, brick exterior, double-plaster wall interior, and new double-pane vinyl windows so not drafty. Once the house gets hot, it pretty much stays there without too much fluctuation; in the summer it can heat up easily when the bricks bake all day in the sun, so the AC has its work cut out for it. We have two fireplaces we use a couple times a week in the winter and an attic fan for spring and fall. The fireplace chimneys are central to the house (we have a circular floorplan,) and run alongside the furnace flue. Our gas hot water heater vents out the furnace flue.

    The current furnace is a 120,000 BTU Dunham & Bush belt-drive installed in 1971 (!) and the A/C is a 3 ton Bryant installed in 1991. Energy bills are outrageous.... $360 peak gas bill this past winter (thermostat set to 68), and IIRC about $270 peak electric bill last summer (thermostat set to 75.) No problem keeping the place hot once it gets that way, but airflow to the 2nd floor with the AC on is pitiful at best.

    We got a bunch of estimates, ranging from XXXXXXXXXX to replace everything. Most were pushing 80% 100,000 BTU 2-stage variable-speed furnaces with 13 or 14-seer 3-ton AC. All said I needed a chimney liner. Some were pushing for "sealed combustion". Brands quoted were Carrier, Lennox, and Armstrong on the high end, TempStar and Rheem in the middle, and Weatherking & Concord on the low end. Money-wise, with the other home-improvement things I need to get done, I'll be scraping to hit the $XXXXXXXXXX mark.

    Then a guy a work with gave me the number of a family friend who has his own HVAC business. Called him and he told me a lot of stuff, like the fact that I don't need a chimney liner (since the chimney stack is central and the water heater vents out the same flue); that a 12 seer AC would be fine because of the short summers; that he would never install a variable-speed furnace but instead a 2 or 3-speed one because they're cheaper to repair and the variable speed is just a bunch of marketing fluff; and that the people telling me that my existing furnace was only 40% efficient and that they could cut my gas bills in half were exaggerating. He also said he installs nothing but Goodman and Amana (which I know Goodman is a hot-button issue around here) and has done so for himself, his family, and friends. I'm inclined to believe him, since he's the family friend of a co-worker, but I've received so much conflicting information from people trying to make a buck (or several thousand) from me, I don't know who to believe anymore.

    So I'm hoping that since you fine folks are not trying to sell me anything, but instead are giving me your opinions, I'll get more honest answers.

    So, with all that said, here are my questions:

    1. Between Weatherking, Concord, and Goodman, which brand has better new models?

    2. Do I need a chimney liner?

    3. Do I need sealed combustion?

    4. 12 seer or higher?

    5. 100,000 BTU? 120,000? 80,000?

    6. Variable-speed or 2-speed/3-speed?

    7. Any other advice?

    Thanks one and all!


    Please read the Forum Rules before continuing to post. You must not use pricing.




    [Edited by lusker on 06-30-2005 at 07:13 PM]

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Office and warehouse in both Crystal River & New Port Richey ,FL
    Posts
    18,836
    We don't do a lot of furnace work in Florida,but I know he's dead wrong about variable speed.

    It's true you don't "have to have it",but it's well worth the money.Sounds like he hasn't stayed up with indusrty changes,starting next year with 13 SEER minimum,some models and brands variable will be standard.


    I'll bet he doesn't like the replacement refrigerant for R22 either.

    check out http://www.410a.com and see what you think.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN, USA
    Posts
    34,467
    1. Weatherking by far. We've used some Concord in the past. Wouldn't touch Goodman even though they have improved.

    2. Inside chimney could do OK without liner but no way to know for sure. Best to line it for 80 & WH or definitely if WH is left alone in it.

    3. Sealed should be done if 90+ is installed. Armstrong is only sealed 80% that can have PVC run any distance.

    4. In our climate, and we're just over I-70 from you, 10 SEER is most practical. Long payback for 12 SEER unless you have abnormally high electric rates.

    5. Without seeing house, hard to guess. Probably 100K 80% or 80K 90% but really need a load calc done.

    6. If budget allows, 2 stage variable speed blower furnaces are nice but sure pricey. I'd probably put the money in this than a 12 SEER A/C if you can't afford both.

    The guy that owns his own biz doesn't impress me too much


  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    12,228

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    64
    im from mn so i think your climate is similar. your old furnace is most likely 70% efficient is 120,000 btus input or output? if its input btus take 70 % of that, 84,000 is what you need for output. if you wanna go 80% for a furnace make sure your output works out . if you buy a 90% furnace of 100000 btus its output is 90,000. remember a 90 % sealed combustion furnace means that 90% of your $ comes out of the register and 10% goes out the flue. its your $$

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    64
    right now 30 -35 % of your heating bill goes out your roof and doesnt even heat your house. on a $300 bill , 100 bucks goes out the flue replace that antique

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