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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Posts
    102
    Hello group.
    I might be in a bit of a pickle. Built a brand new house and moved in last November. Told the builder I wanted the Carrier infinity system, and he got with his AC people and then he gave me an "upgrade price" which I agreed to. Several times throughout the project, several red flags went up that these guys were not Carrier guys..First and formost was I told the guy I wanted the Infinity Control, and he didn't know what it was..Oye..
    So the system finally got put in and we moved in. Winter things seemed good as did spring. Now hot summer comes along, and that poor thing struggles to get the house cooled off. Basically it runs constantly on high speed, and during the day the temp is set at 80, changing to 76 at 4:30. It gets down to 77 and sits there till after 9:00 pm..Plus the compressor unit seems really loud like it's working too hard (compressor buzzing)
    I know if I call these guys they are gonna come out and tell me that it's just fine..So, I called the local carrier dealer. He asked me for the model and serial numbers which I gave him, then he asked me some questions about the house and it's construction. (four ton unit, 110K VS8000 furnace) House 2610 sq foot one story, ten foot ceilings, and nearly 30 windows and house faces west(also tech shield decking, good insulation and Low-e windows). He said without looking at it, it sounds like the unit was too small..He went to researching the unit and found it was sold not here in Austin but in San Antonio TX. He called the guy at the Carrier dist down there and that guy called me..Something really fishy went on..Apparently the company has "branches" but are separate and the place in SA bought it and sold it to the Austin shop. The Carrier guy said he won't sell the Infinity to anyone not Factory trained and apparently the SA branch is and the one up here isn't.(he too asked the same questions and was worried it's too small) Being now my system was ping ponged back and forth nobody know's who's jurisdiction it's in (both guy have been helpful) They both recommended I call a "Factory Authorized Carrier dealer" and after looking at the Carrier site, the one they both recommeneded I called(he is one of the first listed dealers with the Carrier seal)..He is a nice guy, but told me he doesn't use Manual J. He said if the original guys sized it that way than it's most likely gonna be too small to cool properly..He is coming over Friday to evaluate the system, to see if it's wired right and charged right and to see the duct work they put in..
    Another problem I am having is all three bedrooms are at least 5-8 degrees hotter during the day, with the thing running constantly on high speed..I am not asking you professional guys for a solution, but of maybe what I should do next? I know I need to call the installing company, but I am trying to get proof there is a problem and I feel this may turn into a fight..I paid nearly five grand to upgrade this dang thing and don't want to have to pay again..So far as I said I have talked to the Carrier distributors in both Austin and San Antonio, and the Factory certified service guy who is coming Friday but I have not yet called Carrier directly..I called the builder and he basically told me I should be calling the installing contractor but due to past experience I want some second opinions...
    Thanks for taking the time to read this and I really appriciate any help...
    Thanks, John Winn

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    340
    Originally posted by John Winn
    He is a nice guy, but told me he doesn't use Manual J. He said if the original guys sized it that way than it's most likely gonna be too small to cool properly.
    You are in trouble already.

    http://www.proctoreng.com/articles/bigger.html

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Office and warehouse in both Crystal River & New Port Richey ,FL
    Posts
    18,836
    First I'd see what developes Friday and what response you get from the installing contractor.

    Then ,if you are getting anywhere,I'd call Carrier ,as both reps had the oportunity to deal with the installing contractor and try to resolve the issue.

    The CFAD that doesn't size using Man.J ,what does he use to size a system?


    The bedrooms being 5 to 8° higher ,sounds like a duct design problem,sometimes the "fix" is rather involved.


    You stated that it "runs all day on high, set at 80°,then when set down to 76°,it goes to 77° ands stays there".this doesn't seem likely that if it can't cycle or run on low ,set at 80°,but can get to 77°.It normal to run on low ,"all day',could it be on low,not high?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Posts
    102
    Hello,
    Not sure how the guy coming over sizes, but he has been in business for 20 years and is recommended by Carrier..I am also interested in seeing his method of sizing..
    On the running, I don't know what it's doing when we are gone, but the setback during the day and unoccupied is 80, then it sets back to 76 at 4:30..From the point we get home till we go to bed, it's usually never switched off, or even on to low speed..On weekend days, it runs most of the day on high if it's hot (94-96 so far)
    I agree, the bedroom problem sounds like duct work..Which I thought looked odd for such a big house. The large bedrooms have only one vent, located on the ceiling in front of the largest window and blows onto the windows. The vent grills are three way so there is no air deflected toward the room.. I turned them around and it seemed to help...
    Also I forgot to mention that I did check the temp different between return and supply registers and it's almost right at 20% 79 return 59 supply...Checked at two of the three returns and one was close to the unit and the other far away..
    John

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Posts
    102
    Oh Dash..
    It is running on high..The Infinity control displays which mode it's running on plus when it's on high you can hear the fan..When she's running at low speed you absolutely cannot hear a thing..Very quiet blower system..
    John

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Kingsport, Tennessee
    Posts
    649

    Carrier Install

    If installing contractor will not correct system faults then call Carrier at 1-800-Carrier & see if they will help to get competent contractor to correct job. You may or may not get any financial help from Carrier. If you want to have it corrected at the expense of the installing contractor, you will have to take legal action against him. It will be a hassle, but you will win the case.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    37
    Hey John I am having a similar problem with a carrier system not cooling my house. It isn't an infinity system though. Who built your house?
    What was the number you used to call carrier?

  8. #8
    4 ton system in texas will cool about 1800 to 2100 sq ft.


  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Louisville, KY
    Posts
    12,189
    FYI...calling Carrier gets you referred to the local distributor. Just keep working locally and save yourself some time. No need to call Carrier unless distributor won't help.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Burleson, Texas
    Posts
    1,741
    Sounds like you have some issues with your house,IMO-I would not reset the temp at 4:30 in the afternoon, especially 4 degrees, until you get all the problems solved, I would set the temp where you want it and leave it alone...in the mornings your house is probably at a reasonable temp and then you leave and you let it reset to 80, then at 4:30 you expect the system to pull it back to 76, that might be tough for a system that is running properly but especially one that is undersized.. Good luck on your getting your system fixed, one more word of advice I would document evrthing that is going on--

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Posts
    102
    Thanks everyone for all the intelligent information, and recommendations..At least I feel I am somewhat moving in the right direction with involving the two Carrier dealers and now also a factory authorized dealer, even if he doesn't use the Manual J which concerns me a bit if I need to take this to court..I think based on my findings Friday, I will write a letter to the owner of the contractor here who installed the system, share with him my past experiences with his employees as to why I went this route first, and then what my intent is based on how they intend to take care of it..I figure that any system should be able to recover 4 degrees and that a setting during the day at 80 isn't bad, but agreed if the system is undersized it just can't make it. I am sure they are going to fight me on it as they are not going to want to have to replace the unit..Carrier stuff is expensive, and what do they have then, a used four ton..Another note, this is with two adults living in the house, can you imagine what the situation would be if I had kids running in or out, or what would it be to entertain and have several people there at once? SMP7015, I have not spoken directly to carrier yet. I have spoken to the carrier distributors. Any Carrier dealer in your area can tell you who your local distributor is. I got on Carrier's website, looked up local dealers and called the one who had the blue seal. He is also who is coming on Friday..
    Will report what he finds..
    Thanks a million everyone for taking the time to read my story and offer advice...
    John Winn, Bastrop Texas

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    340
    Originally posted by John Winn
    I am sure they are going to fight me on it as they are not going to want to have to replace the unit..Carrier stuff is expensive, and what do they have then, a used four ton.
    The equipment isn't as expensive as you might think, and it is actually not ususual here in Florida for contractors to pull out systems that are undersized (or oversized) because of poor design up front. HVAC contractors can always install the used equipment down the street for their general contractor buddies.

    Check with your local municipality to see if an energy calculation is required for building permit issuance. If so, there should be a load calcualtion on file either with the municipality or with the builder.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    556
    So far I have counted four people that that have told you the system is probally undersized. They are being irresponsible if they havn't done calculations to prove it. You have 652sqft/ton that is normal here in Florida. Actually my calculations normally come out less than that. After all it's a new house with good insulation and Low-e windows right. I doubt you are undersized. I would check to make sure that the thermostat is set up right, the charge is correct, the ductsystem is set up right, and you have the insulation values that you think you do.


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