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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    13
    We just had a new Trane XR12 installed last week to replace our 18 year old 8 SEER Lennox unit whose fan motor seized. That old unit (prior to the motor problem) used to cool the house well and reached the set point on our digital thermostat (even if is was set <70 during the summer). Here is a day-by-day as to what we've observed.

    Thursday 6/23 - Installation Day:
    It ran continuously and never reached the set point of 70 (approx. 18hr., got to 76-77). Outside temp. 80.

    Friday 6/24:
    Had the installer come back out, and we noticed water underneath the unit and they claimed it had likely frozen up. Ok. Turned off the unit, and checked the freon and overall it seemed fine. We had to leave for the weekend, so we turned back on and set at 75. Outside temp 85.

    Sat. 6/25 - Sun 6/26: Outside temp >90.

    Last night 6/26:
    Returned home after weekend and thermostat reading 80. Outside temp. 83. Water again under unit. Turned unit off for 4-6hr. Turned back on for night with a set of 74. Woke up in the morning and it was at 74 - amazing.

    Today 6/27:
    Temp. set to 73 and it reached 73 by 9:00am. By 12pm, temp outside was 85 and temp inside set to 73. At 3:00pm, thermostat reading 77. Now its reading 78 with unit off. I'm giving it a few hours to settle and will turn back on, set to 75 to see what happens.

    It appears the set point is rarely reached with this new system and I am not sure why. Also, there is continually a medium amound of water creeping out from under the unit. The installer is going to come back out Friday to check again, but I am curious to know why a brand new, much more efficient unit is having a hard time bringing the temp down to the set point. Any thoughts?

    Thanks.


  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN, USA
    Posts
    34,193
    Same size as old Lennox? Replaced unit, lines & coil so all is new? Nothing reused? Not sure what is going on. If old components were reused, could affect performance.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Derby City
    Posts
    3,964
    The contractor probably won't like this, but, there should have been a load calculation performed before the 'new' system was recommended and installed. also should have checked the air distribution system to be sure there were no underlying problems. With the higher efficiency equipment, airflow is even more critical, so even if an older system was 'operating' a new one may have problems.

    Water only occurs one of two ways: condensate leaking from pan or from drainline, or indoor coil freezing up and then thawing.

    Was there ever a determination made whether or not the coil was freezing up? If this happens you will see a LOT of water, not just a little. I am assuming you are referring to the indoor equipment?

    That first day it should (after running that amount of time) have satisfied the setting on the thermostat. Especially at an 80 degree day (not all that hot!) Ask for the service manager fromthe company to come out and inspect the job, just to get another opinion. May be a problem with the metering device, etc. or some other mechanical problem.

    If the coil is in fact freezing up, then your airflow will actually diminish to zero, since it can't move air through a block of ice! Again, once this thawed, you woudl have major water around the base of the furnace.

    Insist on a load calculation. This should have been done at first, but better late than never. If they still can't diagnose and correct the problem, as for a factory rep. to come on site, BUT, give the contractor a fair chance to correct the problem. He shouldn't just throw up his hands, and say "beats me." That is no good for you.

    Good luck.

    Everyone has a purpose in life..........even if it's to be a bad example.

    Seek first to understand, before seeking to be understood.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    340
    Originally posted by rsamerica
    We just had a new Trane XR12 installed last week to replace our 18 year old 8 SEER Lennox unit whose fan motor seized.
    What was replaced, just the condenser (outside unit) or the condenser and the air handler (inside unit)? Is the puddle of water under the air handler or the condenser?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    31
    Sounds exactly what I've been going through...

    -Larry

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    697
    rsamerica,

    Please describe what was replaced and give us the model numbers of all the new equipment. Also, did they install a TXV (or TEV)?

    What worries me is that you say the installer turned the AC off to check the Freon level. Checking and adjusting the Freon level properly takes an hour or so, during which the system must be running. If the indoor coil is frozen it must first be thawed.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    13
    Thanks all for your quick replies. Some answers and clarifications:

    1. Only a new condensor unit was replaced. Still have same air handling system inside.

    2. Water is coming out from under outside condensor (one the concrete slab on which it rests). Appears on right side, front primarily. A small amount right side, rear (where removable panel is).

    3. A load calculation was not done, to my knowledge.

    4. Model: Trane XR12

    5. Installer had unit running when checking freon. He did mention that once it was running, the "preloaded" freon was not enough to "fill" to where it should be, so more was added.

    Does this information help?
    Thanks.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    13
    Two more quick things:

    - In April, I had the same company who installed the new unit come to the house to inspect the original unit. New filter installed and they said everything looked good. Of course two months later, the fan motor seized....

    - I did not have a filter on the freon line with the old unit. When the new unit was installed, they also added a soup-can sized filter to the freon line. Would this do anything related to the problems I'm seeing?

    Thanks again.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    13
    Lastly, the old unit was a 2 ton unit and so is the new one.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    340
    Did they replace any parts in the air handler, such as the coil or a valve (specifically, a piston or thermal expansion valve)?

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    13
    Nothing other than the condensor was replaced/changed.

    We have a 2 floor 2100 sq. ft. condo with the thermostat upstairs. The basement is cold, probably below at (or possibly below) set point. That was the case with the old unit, too, but the thermostat upstairs used to reach the set point. Now it doesn't with the new unit.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN, USA
    Posts
    34,193
    When you hack a 12 SEER outdoor unit on some old indoor system, you could have operational difficulties and reduced capacity. The 12 SEER runs much less head pressure and requires an expansion valve indoor meter. If you have a fixed meter and/or a small evap designed for low SEER, you could be low on capacity. This is what happens with a poorly done job. The proper Trane TXC coil with expansion valve should be installed.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    340
    Originally posted by rsamerica
    We just had a new Trane XR12 installed last week to replace our 18 year old 8 SEER Lennox unit whose fan motor seized.
    Please confirm this an R22 condenser. The model number starts with 2TTR.

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