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  1. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    31
    Right. That's why they dropped it down.

    I can't do much about ducts that are embedded in concrete. They are what they are.

    -Larry

    Originally posted by trane
    Higher blower speed will not help if the ducts are to small. You need to measure the return duct and length, 16x8 will not handle the needed cfm for return. I don't think you need freeze stats or low amb. controls, you have a airflow problem.

  2. #15
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Madison, WI/Cape Coral, FL
    Posts
    6,638
    Otimizer -raising the head pressure to lower the capacity of a condensing unit,WOW! This raises the amp draw and raises the stress on the compressor. Shortens the life of the compressor and increases utility cost. Not the best idea. Fix the air flow problem or stop cooling to the extreme low temperatures.

  3. #16
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    31
    Not sure what else I can do.

    Like I said, it's hard to work with ducting that's embedded in concrete. At least not at a cost affordable by someone other than Donald Trump.

    Sure, I'd love to re-work the whole house with new ducting, convert to an updraft unit with new ducting in the attic and walls, etc... but like I said. I ain't Donald Trump

    It's kinda like burning your car to the ground, and taking it to the body shop and saying "Fix It". Sure, it can be done but...

    If you have other idea's I'd love to hear them!

    -Larry

  4. #17
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN, USA
    Posts
    34,595
    Put a freeze stat on the suction line with a time delay all in series with Y. If the thing is about the freeze up, stat will open, time delay will hold Y open for 5 minutes.

    Don't put a fan cycle kit on for this purpose. The 14 SEER can run down to 45 as shipped. That unit is not approved for any fan cycle kit.

  5. #18
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Office and warehouse in both Crystal River & New Port Richey ,FL
    Posts
    18,836
    Air flow,what about less restritve supply grilles?


    Increase the return duct and grille size?Add a second Aprilaire filter,to reduce the pressure drop thru the filter,or switch to an Electronic Air Cleaner?


  6. #19
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    31
    Best idea I've heard so far

    Thanks!

    -Larry

    Originally posted by BaldLoonie
    Put a freeze stat on the suction line with a time delay all in series with Y. If the thing is about the freeze up, stat will open, time delay will hold Y open for 5 minutes.

    Don't put a fan cycle kit on for this purpose. The 14 SEER can run down to 45 as shipped. That unit is not approved for any fan cycle kit.

  7. #20
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    31
    I replaced all the grilles with newer one's that had larger slats. I also considered buidling my own with Oak frames and, ahem, chicken wire as the cover. Not much air blockage there

    The idea of enlarging the supply grilles is interesting. I'll have to see if that's possible, or if maye we can install more of them.

    It would definitely require chiseling out the concrete floor but that might not be as bad as it seams. I'd leave that to a pro for sure.

    I thought about, just as a test, popping off all the grates and letting it run through uncapped 4X10 holes, but I have a siamese cat that would crawl down in there (I guarantee it) and that worries me a bit

    Oh, and as far as the EAC, I've had one and I'll never have another. You see, I actually _cleaned_ mine on a schedule, and this is really hard on the Corona's. After having to replace something like 8 corona's on two cells at a cost of $9 a pop I swore I'd never have another.

    -Larry

    Originally posted by dash
    Air flow,what about less restritve supply grilles?


    Increase the return duct and grille size?Add a second Aprilaire filter,to reduce the pressure drop thru the filter,or switch to an Electronic Air Cleaner?

    [Edited by techlarry on 06-27-2005 at 05:00 PM]

  8. #21
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Office and warehouse in both Crystal River & New Port Richey ,FL
    Posts
    18,836
    Check http://www.hartandcooley.com the grilles that are the least restrictive should look like their model 210 floor register,which model looks most like yours?



    What size ducts to the floor registers?

    [Edited by dash on 06-27-2005 at 05:31 PM]

  9. #22
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    31
    I looked at the supply ducts. Re-sizing ain't gonna happen. They are actually the concrete in the floor. The holes for the grates are cut down through about 2.5" of pure concrete.

    The size is a bit weird. They are sort of a round/rectangle molded into the concrete slab. I'd say 7 inches wide and about 10 inches tall, rounded in the corners.

    I'll take a look at the site and grates.

    Wish you could post pictures here. I'd post a picture of the duct system.

    Thanks!

    -Larry



    Originally posted by dash
    Check http://www.hartandcooley.com the grilles that are the least restrictive should look like their model 210 floor register,which model looks most like yours?



    What size ducts to the floor registers?

    [Edited by dash on 06-27-2005 at 05:31 PM]

  10. #23
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Southold.calm
    Posts
    6,333
    Techlarry
    Just a thought. You said the coil freezes when amb is below 70. I assume this is happening overnight. Set your fan switch to on. This will allow more air movement during the off cycle. Good luck.


  11. #24
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Office and warehouse in both Crystal River & New Port Richey ,FL
    Posts
    18,836
    10X7 oval duct = 8.7" round,9X6 oval=7.7" round,so IF each grille has it's own duct,the branch ducts may be large enough,could be they feed several suppiles or a perimeter system.Can you tell us more.

    The 12X4 grilles could be a large part of the problem.

    You can post picture on this site.



    If you can install a "box/duct " under the coil,can you run a supply(s) to the nearest room(s),as a baseboard grille?If so this would reduce the amount of air needed in the undersal ducts,and you would close of the floor grilles in the room(s),that would now have baseboard grilles.Static would be reduced.

    [Edited by dash on 06-28-2005 at 04:29 PM]

  12. #25
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    31
    I think this helps a bit (already experimented with it).

    I'm sad to say now, though, it's not just a low-ambient problem, unless it starts early and builds up slowly.

    She froze up at around 1pm yesterday, and it was definitely not low-ambient outside

    -Larry

    Originally posted by pecmsg
    Techlarry
    Just a thought. You said the coil freezes when amb is below 70. I assume this is happening overnight. Set your fan switch to on. This will allow more air movement during the off cycle. Good luck.


  13. #26
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    31
    We've discussed the "Box-Under-The-Coil" idea briefly. I was hoping to avoid this for the obvious ($$$) reasons.

    Oddly, my 12 year old XL1200 never had these issues.

    No fewer than 5 guys have worked on this and it's still not working right.

    This morning I popped the grates off of the 3 vents in the living room. I'll know around 6pm when I get home if it made a difference.

    If it did, I'm thinking my "Chicken Wire Under The Carpet Over the Grille Hole" might just be the cheapest (and admittedly most bizarre) solution. For now, at least, until someone figures this out.

    I made another complaint to the contractor yesterday. I'm waiting for a call back.

    But, your idea is a discussion we have indeed had.

    Thanks!

    -Larry

    Originally posted by dash
    10X7 oval duct = 8.7" round,9X6 oval=7.7" round,so IF each grille has it's own duct,the branch ducts may be large enough,could be they feed several suppiles or a perimeter system.Can you tell us more.

    The 12X4 grilles could be a large part of the problem.

    You can post picture on this site.



    If you can install a "box/duct " under the coil,can you run a supply(s) to the nearest room(s),as a baseboard grille?If so this would reduce the amount of air needed in the undersal ducts,and you would close of the floor grilles in the room(s),that would now have baseboard grilles.Static would be reduced.

    [Edited by dash on 06-28-2005 at 04:29 PM]

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