I got your positive comment right here: I'm positive that you're conflicted. If you trusted this guy's abilities you wouldn't be on this board asking questions. But as it stands you like him and feel loathed to give up a guy you like. So you’re trying to have it both ways.
I didn't call anyone anything. I said IF something was the case THEN he was an idget or you were cheap. I left it up to you to decide. But forget that. I'll be more affirmative. You live in a high humidity climate with undersized ducts and a furnace that literally can't push the airflow he called for. He should have set it for 400 and more likely 350 CFM. What on Earth possessed him to set it for 450 I don't know. But if everything you've said is true then he goofed. He might even be an idget. Oh the horror of my negativity!
I don't give a rat's @ss if he works 80 hours a week and co-owns the Dallas Cowboys. There are people who will tell you about their 30 years of experience and it means NOTHING because they've been doing it wrong for 30 years. Proper technique has no correlation to experience, hours worked, business ownership, how nice a guy he is or even the negative tone of my reply.
He set it on 450cfm because I ASKED him to. He didn't think it would remove enough humidity which is why he told me to call him back when I needed it adjusted. And to fix the ducts, etc. He doesn't brag about his experience or his abilities or whether or not he's a co-owner etc. These are things I learned from other techs in his company and people in our community who have done business with him. Irascible, you're passing judgement on someone you don't know. I'm not asking for that. I'm asking how much ducting does this system need for optimum performance, period.
You need to supply more info. than is likely possible for anyone to tell you the duct sizes needed.
If you can provide a scale drawing with all the duct ,grille sizes and fitting details,we could get close,without that it's a guess.
Wrong again moss. I still left qualifiers in there. The word "might" means might. Look it up.
What I left no qualifier on was the fact that you're conflicted. You like and trust this guy but need to come here for answers. Then when your story reveals clear technical deficiencies that should have been addressed by your tech you get defensive on his behalf and lecture us about not being nice. It is YOU that condemned your tech with your story. Don't blame us for reacting properly to the story you gave. The responses were appropriate to your original story.
If you wish to modify and clarify, great. If you told an incomplete story to begin with, no biggie. Communication has its ebbs and flows. But don't lecture me about being positive when it is you that unwittingly started out with a negative picture.
I am deleting this post because I re-read PFEMIKE'S first response again and can see now how superfluous my reply was. PFEMIKE said everything, TMOSS just didn't want to hear it.
Regards -- P.Student
[Edited by perpetual_student on 06-27-2005 at 08:26 PM]
My beginning post includes duct sizes and the register sizes each goes to. All ducting is flex with mastic sealing all of the connections. I checked them all while unit was running and couldn't feel any leaks. I haven't included duct lengths in my description because I didn't measure them. I would estimate the furthest run around 20-25ft. Most are about 10-15ft.
Yes ,I know I made a small sketch for that info.,but it's not enough.
The elbows and/or fittingss(transitions ,etc.),along with actual feet are a large part of Manual D.
If you provied photos,and duct lengths we could likely get close.
Ok, Let me get this straight:
You're mad at me because I called a guy whom you like and "trust" whom you are backchecking his advise on an anoymous website based on your admittedly inadequate explanation with your explicitly stated intent to "confront" your supposedly trusted friend based on our "educated opinions".
I stick by the fact that I called him a Hack because he supposedly did do a Manual J, but did not or could not do a Manual D, nor did he provide copies of that Load calc to you. Further, he replaced a 2.5 ton system with a 5 ton system when by your own admission his Manual J showed a 3.5 or 4 ton would've done the job. Further, he, again by your own admission, he set the 450 CFM rating to your admittedly uneducated request to max that oversized blower out. I guess the "more power" thing is big with you.
So, now you're saving 25-30% on your bills, that's great, but think if it had been done to the correct sizing and airflow requirements what your bills might be. Not to mention your humidity control. My customers typically have 45 - 50% indoor RH year round at 77 - 80 degrees and lower utility bills by 50% or so. That's the power of a properly sized unit. (oh yeah, that is Positive comments about our company)
So, the reason I put my phone number on that post was that if you had called I would've done a Manual J & D for you for no charge, since I like to serve people and help them. Further, I like every other AC guy in the world and most small business owners works 60+ hours a week in crappy hot attics and damp, dank crawlspaces. About that I am also positive.
One more thing I'm positive about is that I gave you the info you needed to "confront" your AC guy and you choose to get pissy over an inferred (not implied, look up the difference in your dictionary please) insult rather than understand that I was taking valuable time to respond to your post rather than ignore you and laugh at your predicament. What I don't understand is why if you are so happy with your guy and the current situation are you even on this website posting anyhow?
You say that if you want to modify your ductwork differently than your "trusted" guy recommends you want info to second guess him again like you did on the 450 CFM thing. I don't know what you do for a living, but I'm guessing you're either an engineer, a Lawyer, or a really pompous ASSet Manager. I don't know many people who go around second guessing their "trusted" advisors who really trust those advisors.
So, with that said, one more positive comment, if you really want to know more than your AC guy before you confront him, I'm positive that if your read the Manual J and Manual D books available on the internet then you'd know more than your AC guy, even though he is a nice guy (aren't we all?) .
I believe the "hack" label is quite justified under the circumstances and I commend Mike for being consistent in his assesment of the situation and having the integrity and guts to remain consistent and not change based on the situation.
There is no justification for the apparent negligence this person has imposed on the customer.
No determination of load conditions? (at least no evidence of any)
No duct design or retrofit of ductwork as needed?
More than likely... no anything done correctly with the exception of an oversized system, undersized duct and a big price tag (probably the real reason for sizing 5 tons)
Thanks for the Hug Chillbilly.
There are people who will tell you about their 30 years of experience and it means NOTHING because they've been doing it wrong for 30 years. Proper technique has no correlation to experience, hours worked, business ownership, how nice a guy he is or even the negative tone of my reply.
I love this insightful and brutally honest quote.
There are many in this business who wield their years of "experience" like some sort of weapon to justify what makes them better than others with less "time".
Hell, I pissed one poster off so bad on this site that he went around checking to see how much "experience" I had.
Problem is, he only checked with one person and the guy is a dysfunctional liar
He probably thinks he knows me now.
Sure is refreshing to know that not everyone here is like that.
You're Welcome Mike.
I like seeing posters with conviction who are not here to harness buddies to back them up.
The post was fair, straightforward and honest.
If the guy is trolling for help, then you and Irascible conveyed what he needed to know.
So are you saying you have more than a few years in the trade?
Who do you think was checking up on you?