sizing txv and need for hard start kit

[resolutetech]

when sizing a txv for air handler would it be sized for odu tonnage or airhandler tonnage.

another question if i might. i read york's install instructions for txv installation and they recomend a hard start kit with a recipicating compressor and say its not needed for scroll compressor. several mechanics on this sight call for hard start kit period with txv. what is best?

[ultratec]

Are you building a system? LOL J/K. Evap size, BTU's, cfm all come into play when sizing a TXV. Scroll compressors do not reqiure the aid of a start cap or kit.

[Mr Bill]

Originally posted by ultratec
Scroll compressors do not reqiure the aid of a start cap or kit.

ultratec, I have read lots of your posts here and you have become an asset to this forum you can tell you have a clue on lots of stuff, but this is the first thing I would have to disagree with you on,they may not require one but my advise would be to install one when used with a TXV, but it's ok as long as we agree to disagree and move on I can personally live
with that.

[ultratec]

Well Mrbill, Its nice to disagree, it really is, thats how we all learn. But, lol. I have never seen a scroll hard start, unless! The internal discharge check was defective, and thats very very rare. Thats why the manufuactures of the compressors dont feel the need for them.. IE Copland. The start assist doesnt even reduce the starting draw. Many feel, including me and the manufactures that build them is that it does nothing. P.S.. Thank you for your kind words. I have read alot of your posts, learned and enjoyed reading them..

[Mr Bill]

If you buy a 12 seer or 14 seer Ruud I think 3-ton up could be all of them at those seer ratings with Copeland Scroll why do they come from the factory with a start assist? Just wondering.

[beenthere]

REs:

Get the factory txv from york.

On the 4 and 5 ton units they use the same size txv.

Also they are balance port txv's, on all sizes.

And it is sized for the outdoor unit.

York uses kickstarts for their stast kits, they have potencial relays.

Not required for scroll compressor. But no harm if you use one.

[j-bill]

the trane co. uses a hard start on some high end products with their copeland alliance scrolls & also to solve or reduce light flicker caused by starting amp draw on other scroll units that don't come with one.

[docholiday]

To be frank, the scroll compressors rarely if ever need the start kit. However, on some systems it is included as a result of one or more other mfg's including it as a "Spec Buster". This is nothing more that a case of "well, brand x has one, why should I buy yours". Many specified jobs have a call for brand X or equivelent and then spout out the add ons such as hard start kit, time dealy, etc. Often, this is specified by a building engineer who is calling for the same thing year after year and only changing the model numbers as they change. Remember, he runs the cost up for a reaon.

[ultratec]

MrBill, I installed a 12, 4 ton last week Ruud, Doesnt have a start kit. I called my rheem dealer to ask about the 14 seer. The hard start kit doesnt come w/ any model, Rheem or Ruud. The only time I found a scroll hard start, was because the internal discharge check was defective, again, very rare.. Love scrolls lol.

[Mr Bill]

We must be getting two different units in our areas, I just installed a 5-ton Ruud 14 seer about an hour ago and it had not only a start assist but a time delay also mow that is weird.

[ultratec]

No way lol. Really? And a time delay?? Maybe they thought it was a recip lmao. Was it a 50hz machine? lol. Can I have the model number please? I wanna call on monday and speak to someone else. Like I said, I am not a big resi company, I never seen a hard start on any scroll, I am not saying there not installed on some machines, After speaking w/ a PE friend of mine and talking w/ national compressor and copland, they do nothing for that compressor, but wont hurt it bla bla bla lol. I started up two carrier 3 ton cassets today, I hate them lol. No start kits, you can push that contactor in 10 times, once every second and that pump (copland sroll) wont even fart, just starts right up lol. Try that w/ a recip.. Dont try that at home!!!(its not good for the machine) If you dont mind, if you still have the model #??? Thanks Mrbill.

[Edited by ultratec on 06-24-2005 at 05:32 PM]

[Mr Bill]

UAPC-060JAZ 14+
don't know if it makes any difference but invoice say's
"was UAPB"

Maybe baldloonie will come along and give us his experience
to see if he is getting the start assist and time delay in his area with the Ruud units.

[Edited by mrbillpro on 06-24-2005 at 05:06 PM]

[duckman373]

Trane use a hard start kit in high eff units, because they believe it's a good marketing tool. It's not needed on a Scroll. The time delay is neccessary on a Scroll, to keep it from running backwards in case of a short cycle.