Split system replacement?

[mmortenson]

Ok, a little background. I purchased my house 9 months ago, it was built in 1974, is 1550sqft and has a finished basement of the same size (total sqft is approx. 3100sqft). Everything is electric. I have Payne heat pump that i thought was much older but the manf. said that it is 5 ton 2003 model 10 seer. Inside there is Lennox 5 ton air handler with heat strip that is original to the house and manf. said it was built in 1973.

My electric bills are not huge ($143 in Feb. Live in St. George, UT which has mild winter climate but a hot summer, like 107*-112*), but they're about the same of my friends 2005 3,700sqft 2-story house. (my Dec and Jan bills were much higher, like $220-$250 and i used more than 1,000kwh more energy in those months than my most recent bill) My bill actually rises in the winter as oppossed to falling. I used to live in Phoenix and it was the opposite there, huge bills in the summer and practically nothing in the winter.

I know that newer more efficient products would lower my bill, but can/should I just replace the ancient air handler and not the heat pump or the whole system? As for the for the r410 v r22 possible issue, trane's website says they still sale r22 air handlers.

What kind of savings would i be looking at?

The savings calculators I find on the net are mostly for gas furnaces and don't really represent my current or future system. Anyone know a good one?

Finally I know this is HVAC forum, but would I get more savings and more comfort in my house (North/south facing house and west side rooms are hot in summer and the coldest in the winter) by replacing windows(original to house) as oppossed to HVAC?

Lot's of ?'s i know but any help is appreciated....Thanks!

[BaldLoonie]

Wow, 5 tons for 1550 sq ft? Someone got carried away. You say you get hot but you don't have humidity so total load isn't near what it could be in TX or FL. The basement adds essentially nothing to cooling needs, little to heating needs.

First, a dealer needs to find out what size equipment you really need. Doing anything you can to the house to tighten it like insulation and new windows should be done. The heat gain/loss calculation should reflect any planned improvements.

Then the dealer should look at the duct system to see if there are issues, undersized most likely, that should be corrected. Usually it is a lousy duct system that causes hot & cold spots.

Your mismatch - cheapo Payne on an old Lennox air handler - isn't helping matters any either. Anything you do is an improvement over that.

So improve the "envelope" of the house and find a good dealer to proprose the right size equipment on a proper duct system and you'll get comfort & efficiency.

[Stump]

If you where to replace any of the system think long and hard about replacing it all, equipment is designed to run togethor and when you mix match your asking for trouble. Not to mention that your putting all new equipment with 2003 motor.
If you where to do variable speed with a higher seer rating you will like the savings. Also switch to the 410 now, the r22 is getting harder to find parts for and even though they offer it now it will just be a matter of time before they phase it out completely. And as for the windows, I don't have a answer.
Good luck.

[George2]

Ok, a little background. I purchased my house 9 months ago, it was built in 1974, is 1550sqft and has a finished basement of the same size (total sqft is approx. 3100sqft). Everything is electric. I have Payne heat pump that i thought was much older but the manf. said that it is 5 ton 2003 model 10 seer. Inside there is Lennox 5 ton air handler with heat strip that is original to the house and manf. said it was built in 1973.

My electric bills are not huge ($143 in Feb. Live in St. George, UT which has mild winter climate but a hot summer, like 107*-112*), but they're about the same of my friends 2005 3,700sqft 2-story house. (my Dec and Jan bills were much higher, like $220-$250 and i used more than 1,000kwh more energy in those months than my most recent bill) My bill actually rises in the winter as oppossed to falling. I used to live in Phoenix and it was the opposite there, huge bills in the summer and practically nothing in the winter.

I know that newer more efficient products would lower my bill, but can/should I just replace the ancient air handler and not the heat pump or the whole system? As for the for the r410 v r22 possible issue, trane's website says they still sale r22 air handlers.

What kind of savings would i be looking at?

The savings calculators I find on the net are mostly for gas furnaces and don't really represent my current or future system. Anyone know a good one?

Finally I know this is HVAC forum, but would I get more savings and more comfort in my house (North/south facing house and west side rooms are hot in summer and the coldest in the winter) by replacing windows(original to house) as oppossed to HVAC?

Lot's of ?'s i know but any help is appreciated....Thanks!

The first thing is that air handlers can go either; R22 or R410A. The TXV (if there is one) would need to be changed. Finding a R22 HP or AC is unlikely.

5 tons sound over sized to me. Have a load calc done on the house.

Improving the insulation and windows is always a good investment. Rebates and tax credits are available to help pay for it.

You would not be disappointed with a new high efficiency system. There are a lot of options; i.e. variable-speed blowers, 2-speed HP, staged heating.

[mmortenson]

Is a 5 ton really oversized? My total livable is above 3000sqft. the basement is a daylight basment with walkout and gets a lot of exposure on the west and south sides, would it really be a minimal add to the overall necessary load?

[George2]

[QUOTE=mmortenson;9737352]Is a 5 ton really oversized? My total livable is above 3000sqft. the basement is a daylight basment with walkout and gets a lot of exposure on the west and south sides, would it really be a minimal add to the overall necessary load?[/QU

A 5 ton system requires alot of airflow. I don't know how you're doing it with 1500 sq ft per floor.

Is the basement finished?

[NCHeat]

Is a 5 ton really oversized? My total livable is above 3000sqft. the basement is a daylight basment with walkout and gets a lot of exposure on the west and south sides, would it really be a minimal add to the overall necessary load?

The only way to find out is have a load calc. done. Being a walk out basement it may add a little more to the load than a standard basement, but you can't guess at that. You need a load calc. done. I tell a lot of customers that most of the time thier money is better spent in the attic (meaning insulation) rather than the basement (new equipment) High efficiency equipment installed in a house with no insulation and poor windows and doors is a waste of money. My

[mmortenson]

[QUOTE=George2;9737482]

Is a 5 ton really oversized? My total livable is above 3000sqft. the basement is a daylight basment with walkout and gets a lot of exposure on the west and south sides, would it really be a minimal add to the overall necessary load?[/QU

A 5 ton system requires alot of airflow. I don't know how you're doing it with 1500 sq ft per floor.

Is the basement finished?

Yes, the basement is finished.

By airflow, you mean the returns into the mechanical room, right? I'm pretty sure that it doesn't get near the necesssary air that it needs, the mechanical room door will suck the door closed from partially open when the unit is on.

[REP]

You should listen very carefully to the people posting for you.
This is what I see;One a payne connected to a lennox maybe works but it is a miss match and is closer to an 8 or 9 seer .This is why you buy a system and not just pieces and parts.Also the time for R22 is past,its now the age of R410.Even if you can get a R22 system it won't be efficent unit.
5 tons really does sound like too much for your house.A load calc NEEDS to be done.Its called a manuel "J" and its companion is a manuel "D".Don't ask for these two manuel calculations ,,,demand them.
You will always get the biggest savings from the correct size no matter what rating the equipment has.
Having ductwork that is so bad that it sucks doors closed is like putting a pinto motor into a cadillac.It is just so wrong for so many ways plus its costing you a small fortune every times your unit comes on.

[George2]

[QUOTE=mmortenson;9737782]

Yes, the basement is finished.

By airflow, you mean the returns into the mechanical room, right? I'm pretty sure that it doesn't get near the necesssary air that it needs, the mechanical room door will suck the door closed from partially open when the unit is on.

I (we) see it all the time. Doors slamming shut because all of the RA is coming from the basement (duct leakage).

Thank God for duct leakage or we'd have alot more shelled units.