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  1. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
    Posts
    68,981
    Thank you miami mike, for being reasonable. Unlike maidenusa who takes pot shots at anything Goodman because his wife and daughter ran off with a Goodman salesman (both with the same guy )

    pmurf1, I am referring to the OEM filter/drier inside of the remote heat pump. It is nearly guarenteed to be blocked under the circumstances of the install.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  2. #15
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    13
    Roboteq, curious as to why/what you've experienced with the drier even if said split system had a new bi flow drier installed externally when it was changed? The linesets on said split were blown out with nitrogen before the a/h was brazed in, another habit I have.

    This is turning into one good discussion eh?

    Like I said before, overall I'm happy with the resolution that the manufacturer gave me, distributor is a different story. I'm at least confident that this new unit will work for a while. There's no way I could have said that about the 3 ton package before. And I learned something in the process which is what it's all about.

    As far as the warrantying side jobs which seems to be a sore subject for most, I don't do a whole lot of them, honestly. Less than a dozen a year and they are to people I know who are reasonable and know I am doing them a favor in the first place. I also don't work usually more than 45 a week, unless it's an emergency. Been there done that, all it gets you is burnt out. We really don't even have an on-call, most of our customers are either commercial/government who aren't there weekends or we are able to convince them to get a hotel room, it's cheaper than the OT/ opening fees,etc.. They're first or second on the list for Monday, seems to pacify most.

    Enough talk, going to sleep so I can fry again tomorrow. 110 and humid, I smell money!

  3. #16
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
    Posts
    68,981
    Ok pmurf1, you seem like a decent guy and now I feel bad for coming off so crappy on my first post. Anywho, there should only be one liquid line filter/drier in the system. A filter/drier is an anticipated restriction, multiple filter/driers can be a runaway horse.

    Even by evacuating the lineset and indoor coil very well, there is no guarentee that all contaminants have been removed. First off, oil absorbs moisture so any oil that was left in the indoor coil (and there was oil in it) would have absorbed not only moisture from the atmosphere when the system was opened but also contained whatever junk was produced by the last failed compressor.

    Evacuating to 250 microns and having the system hold at 250 microns for at least 15 minutes does pretty much insure that most of the moisture in the oil has boiled off. However, there is still the issue of other stuff in this system.

    Now, in order to get rid of the oil in the coil you would have to run the vacuum pump below 250 microns till the system held a vacuum below 250 microns for at least 15 minutes. This still does not address any other contaminants that may have been in that oil.

    Basically what happens is that any contamination in the existing system gets carried off with the existing oil straight into the new outdoor unit and immediately starts blocking up the internal filter/drier. You are not going to be reading the true liquid line pressure in the coil because the gauge port on the service valve is after the filter/drier.

    The best you can do, assuming that the existing indoor coil is a piston metered coil and has the proper sized piston in it for the new outdoor unit, is to charge the system in the cooling mode to the required superheat on the manufacturers charging chart. THEN...check the subcooling. If the subcooling is over 15º when the superheat is correct, there is a blockage between the condensing coil and the gauge port. The only things there are the filter/Drier and the valve block.

    I have seen where the valve block did have an obstruction which also raised the subcooling, but most times it is the filter/drier.

    Even after getting everything set to manufacturers specs in the cooling mode, there is no way that system is going to be charged properly for the heating mode.

    It does not matter what the financial aspects are, if you mismatch heat pump components you will have an abortion and that is never a financially good thing for your customer or for you.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  4. #17
    An abortion? Ewwww.

  5. #18
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
    Posts
    68,981
    Originally posted by chillbilly
    An abortion? Ewwww.
    Exactly!
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  6. #19
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    13
    Roboteq, no offense taken, I've been called a lot worse than an idiot on multiple occasions, I'm sure it'll happen again. That and I've found that arguing on the internet is a lot like being in the Special Olympics, you may win but you're still a retard!

    I'm going to try to get out to the split 3 ton Friday with the Goodman rep and go through it again. There are two dealers here in Phoenix, one has three branches. They are essentially individual entities, each manager has his own people and powers to either accept/reject problems. The one I bought the 3 ton package from has pretty much lost my business forever unless I have no other choice. The guy from the other branch I'm meeting Friday has been nothing but helpful, the Texas customer service people also. The one manager wouldn't even adknowledge me when I brought him back his 3 ton package this afternoon. Other workers/warehouse guys were great, I even put the shipping rails back on in their warehouse with the help of one of them. He seemed extremely eager to help and learn. When I picked up my warranty unit yesterday I asked the manager point blank why they didn't have one of the warehouse guys throw a gauge on their real quick and verify the unit wasn't flat before it was loaded. He in a nutshell said there was no way his guys would do that, implying that they were almost slow or lazy. The two guys in the warehouse today were working very hard and I can tell not the kind of guys who would want to sell someone a problem unit. They all wanted to know why I was bring this thing back, not the kind of attitude I would expect from a guy who couldn't care less. There was a brand new installed 030 package HP sitting there with duct sealer on it, so I'm not the first one to not accept a DOA unit this week. None of this would have ever gotten this far if the manager would have done the right thing and said what can I do to make this right for you right off the bat. Instead you get the off my dock, not my problem runaround from him, and have to go above his head to get things done.

    Either way the new one is up and running fine. A little rattly, but some shimming took care of that. Best check your cap tubes to the condensor coil behind the access port panel if you do one, they're going to rub through. They really shove them in there poorly.

    As far as the whole charging arguement above, I don't know where most of you live, but Phoenix is a unique environment for most a/c's and HP's. Superheats and subcools may get you close, but you learn to adapt quickly when most manufacturers charts don't take into account our temps here. 113 here today, I still haven't seen a charging chart go that high yet! Especially Purons, which would be running just under 600 psi liquid today. The low humidity adds another twist to your wet bulb temp if you actually have time to use a chart.


  7. #20
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
    Posts
    68,981
    I gotta tell you, as a factory rep, I would not even look at a heat pump system that did not have matching and manufacturer rated components.

    My view on that subject is that if the manufacturer of the rated system must take responsibility for the system, then the system must be fabricated as per that manufacturers specifications.

    You do not have a Goodman system. You have a pmurf1 system using a Goodman part along with other components.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  8. #21
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    13
    Roboteq, the Goodman system is matched, I think we're talking about two different systems here. I think you think I have a new Goodman condensor with an old coil. It's a matched system, maybe that's where we're getting off wrong on filters and you thinking I have a plugged one. That system runs fine, it just popped a condensor coil and one of the small lines on the RV valve. A/h has worked perfect since it replaced the 26 year old one about a week after we were just ok'd to replace the condensor only. I've only ever seen one other old water source Mammoth pop a RV in that odd spot, and it was 15 years old, not less than a month old. Thus the whole rant about Goodman seems to have a lot of leaking units lately, either that or I shouldn't play the lotto for a while 'cause my luck just plain stinks. But the dead 030 package I saw today, and a couple other $50 "damaged" a/h's sitting in the corner of the distributor seems to confirm my suspicions. One box was even labeled "leaks".

  9. #22
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Derby City
    Posts
    3,968
    Defendant: "Yes, it was a side job."

    "Your Honor, I rest my case."
    Everyone has a purpose in life..........even if it's to be a bad example.

    Seek first to understand, before seeking to be understood.

  10. #23
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Phoenix, Az
    Posts
    1,250
    I would like to know if you are a licensed contractor. And don't give me any of that "handyman law " BS.

  11. #24

    Post Exactly...

    What exactly does this mean...

    " Either way, I am pleased that GMC took care of me and my customer with a new unit. I also hooked it up tonight and ran it, good to go for my crane tomorrow."

    You hooked it up and ran it and your lifting it tomorrow with a crane, sound sort of nuts to me...
    AllTemp Heating & Cooling

  12. #25
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
    Posts
    68,981
    I got confused long before that part
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  13. #26
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    13

    Re: Exactly...

    Originally posted by AllTemp
    What exactly does this mean...

    " Either way, I am pleased that GMC took care of me and my customer with a new unit. I also hooked it up tonight and ran it, good to go for my crane tomorrow."

    You hooked it up and ran it and your lifting it tomorrow with a crane, sound sort of nuts to me...
    Maybe you don't live in the west, but most package units are rooftops out here, residential and commercial. Don't work on a whole lot of packages on the ground. Therefore, you need a crane to lift said unit. I'm strong, but not that strong! I meant I checked for a decent static charge at the distributor before it was even loaded, which means about 150 psi at 110 degrees. Then I hooked it up to a 220 circuit in my garage to make sure everything ran good. If it didn't I would have called off the crane and sent another back. It did and it's all installed good to go. About 1.5 hours to pull the old and get the new one running.

    Maybe on the next neighbors I do I'll give the Trane XE1400 a try, just need to move the stand over, but ductwork should line up easy. The XE1600 scares me with two compressors and all the electronics which are all going to change in two years. I don't even know if the initial buy in on the 1400 is worth more than the 1200, other than knowing you're not wasting energy.

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