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  1. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    small island in the Pacific Ocean
    Posts
    558
    a real estate agent who sells a $400K house makes $8000 whether it sells the day the house goes on the market or a year later, he doesn't even haveto have the listing. If he does have the listing and sells it $16,000 is his/hers. A 6 month course and a new suit is all it takes.

    Give me a break.

    10 years crawling through attics, crawl spaces, mouse sh*t, heat stroke, opthomologist, back pain and we get questioned for making $80 bucks on a return visit with a blower motor that resides in a 22" crawl.

  2. #15
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    40
    One call I went on the guy agreed, to replace heat pump says I have a good rep. he shakes my hand and says go ahead for me to call with the concrete pad size (hes going to have poured) hes says hell pay me the $125.00 service call in with the install one check, that was a week ago, Iam driving by there on my way to store, I thought I saw new h.p. I turn around sure enough brand new Carrier (builders model) sitting on new pad, so he stiffed me the service call, and I ordered the unit have to bring that back also. I will call in am, and ask him when does he want me to do change out, when he tells me he had it done Ill ask for my $$$$$$, and then tell him his hand shake, and bullsh*t, hes a typical car salesman, doesnt pay me its the principal, Ill take him to small claims, and tell everyone I know, especially my 2000 customers when I service there units to stay away from him! This is what I mean, I think we are getting into a society thats all for themselves and gets satisfaction from screwing other people for the sake of a few bucks, I used to until 6-months ago do a job, price it no down payment either on a hand shake, my word means eveything, This continues Iam going to change my mind real quick, snake!

  3. #16
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN
    Posts
    241
    What do you expect?

    Bushes sends jobs overseas, screwing middle class, and benefiting few CEOs.

    You thought this trend will not impact you?

    It looks like repukes want too class society: CEOs & walmart employees. And good luck getting $2k proffit from WMT employee.


  4. #17
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    94
    XE 1000

    The more I read this post, the more I feel a need to respond.

    Yes, I am a homeowner. Yes I do research on the internet.
    (especially for such a huge purchase as an HVAC system)

    All I want is an honest HVAC CO. who knows what they're doing & takes pride in their work BUT who wont try & sell me a mercedes of a system that I dont need & cannot afford.

    Is price the most imp - of course not. But not alot of homeowners have unlimited $. (personally I havent had a raise in 5 years but all my other XP's sure go up)

    Dont judge a homeowner you've never met by your past experiences. I pay my mechanic when I pick up my car, I pay my electrician when He finishes the job. Likewise I expect to pay My HVAC company the same way. BUT I dont expect shoddy work or having to pay for a return visit b/c the problem wasnt fixed in the 1st place

    Originally posted by phosgene

    10 years crawling through attics, crawl spaces, mouse sh*t, heat stroke, opthomologist, back pain and we get questioned for making $80 bucks on a return visit with a blower motor that resides in a 22" crawl.
    (note: return visit)


    Personally, I dont have time to look for a new company / shop price for every repair that my system needs. I want to pick an HVAC Co. to install my new system, do maint checks each season, & be there to fix any problems. In short I want the same HVAC Co for as long as I live here.

    Short story, a few yrs ago, a gas station (i knew the service Mgr.) told me $900 for entire new exhaust system. (93 Mazda). After talking to my dad, decided for 2nd opinion & The Muffler shop on Horsepen RD (for all you Richmond folk) Told me no, they can weld on the proper piece for $90 no need to replace entire system)

    Moral of story, Since then, this shop does all my car work. YES I do pay probably $10-15 more per oil change than I could using a coupon BUT, I know the work is done right, they wont rip me off, & they stand behind their work. Plus, they always tell me if I dont need a service I ask for. Not to mention they answer all my question reguardless of how dumb it may sound to them.

    I want an HVAC company like this. Hey XE 1000, want to move to Richmond

  5. #18
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    956
    Originally posted by lit'l cat

    Short story, a few yrs ago, a gas station (i knew the service Mgr.) told me $900 for entire new exhaust system. (93 Mazda). After talking to my dad, decided for 2nd opinion & The Muffler shop on Horsepen RD (for all you Richmond folk) Told me no, they can weld on the proper piece for $90 no need to replace entire system)
    I dont kow your situation but I've seen this a number of times.

    It could have been a shifty shop or the first could have seen something the other guys werent looking for. the first may have seen the whole system was crapping out and it was better to replace the whole thing instead of a bubble gum fix and have you keep coming back.

    But like I said, I dont know these shops

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    956
    Originally posted by stevio

    I'm planning on putting an aluminum fence in my back yard for our two children. I called a few companies around town to give me an estimate and I was shocked by the cost of them. I was quoted $5500 and $6000 where I was hoping to spend no more than $4000. I did some research and found an online company that would sell me the fence and all parts for $3500. Now, I know the company will make a profit off of me and I can only assume that the fence company would be able to get fencing supplies for less than what I could get it for so I'm not sure if they could justify that much of a markup. I'm figuring I could hire 4 guys at $200 each for a day to come over and help me set the fence up. So, I'm up to $4300 in total cost.

    However, I don't compare that too HVAC.
    were the first companies installing the fence? using their own equipment? using 3ft concrete not 1 for setting?

    like hvac, you arent paying just for the equipment installed and install time, there is insurance, equipment to do the job, advertising, .....there are always costs that we have to pay that ho's dont see, know or care about, it doesnt matter the job

  7. #20
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    94
    Operator,

    Difference is: 1st shop (gas/service station) Service Mgr, who I knew, thought she cd make a buck off me, that I didnt know any better (which was true). 2nd shop was honest. (In VA we have yearly state inspection of our vehicles). If they didnt pass my exhaust system per code, they would lose their license.

    Again, you think I was only looking for a cheaper price, when in fact all I wanted was a 2nd opinion & found an honest shop. (Which seems harder & harder to find)

    (P.S. 2nd shop does custom exhaust work & race car work therfore I didnt have any idea they would be cheaper)

    My point, while you think most homeowners only care about price, it seems to me most HVAC contractors only care about how much they can sell you by playing on the homeowners ignorance of HVAC systems (ie just replace system instead of finding the problem)

    Yes this observation is very generalized, but then again so were your observations in your last 2 posts

  8. #21
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    956
    Originally posted by lit'l cat
    Operator,

    Again, you think I was only looking for a cheaper price, when in fact all I wanted was a 2nd opinion & found an honest shop. (Which seems harder & harder to find)

    (P.S. 2nd shop does custom exhaust work & race car work therfore I didnt have any idea they would be cheaper)

    My point, while you think most homeowners only care about price, it seems to me most HVAC contractors only care about how much they can sell you by playing on the homeowners ignorance of HVAC systems (ie just replace system instead of finding the problem)

    Yes this observation is very generalized, but then again so were your observations in your last 2 posts
    frm operator "It could have been a shifty shop or the first could have seen something the other guys werent looking for. the first may have seen the whole system was crapping out and it was better to replace the whole thing instead of a bubble gum fix and have you keep coming back.

    But like I said, I dont know these shops"

    I said I didnt know the shop, just mentioned that 1 could have seen different things, wasn't implying you were after the cheapest, and my 2nd post was to point out alot of things the general HO doesnt know

    as for hos wanting the cheapest, its the same for everything. some want quality, some want cheap.

    My customers dont want cheap (i'm not), and they appreciate the fact I will give them an honest opinion aboout their equipment, I dont install so I dont get anything out of them replacing

    [Edited by operator on 06-20-2005 at 02:48 PM]

  9. #22
    stevio is offline Member-Excite.com is bad address
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    23
    Operator,
    Again, I don't compare the fence to an HVAC. I agree completely with Litle cat that I am willing to pay for quality service and as most people want, I expect honesty and will not settle for anything but. This has been a great site for my learning and I appreciate all of the input you professional members give us. I am on this site daily and have been teased by my wife for being addicted. So, Thanks!.
    As far as the fence goes, I understand a two-person auger will rent for $50 a day and I will need approx 35 bags of concrete. So we are talking about $125 for the material. There still seems to be a huge profit margin on their end though.

  10. #23
    stevio is offline Member-Excite.com is bad address
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    23
    Part 2:
    I was thinking about the thread as I drove today and I came to some personal conclusions. There are jobs I have done myself around the house including painting, hanging siding, some light plumbing and electrical work. I feel pretty confident in my abilty to do those jobs as well as going down in the crawl space and sealing up some flex duct with the appropriate tape. However, there are jobs I will always allow the professionals to do including electrical work (I will be glad to turn the breaker off to replace a light fixture but anything more, it's someone else's job) and hvac installation. Those two things need to be left to the professionals I am willing to pay for them to do it right.
    But to go back to the change in customers as I am one, there definitely is a DIY mentality out there as the information is so easy to obtain. I'm sure I could do my own electrical work but I'm not willing to risk the chance I do something wrong. The same goes with HVAC as it is a major investment. It's why I will take my car into the shop if something goes wrong. Could I install my own HVAC? Possibly. Would I trust myself that I did it right, absolutely not. But unfortunately, as you professionals have the stories to tell, there are idiots out there that think they can fix anything.

  11. #24
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    New Hampshire
    Posts
    1,285

    I agree with you.

    I find that the reason for the DIY is the issue.

    Some things are a chance to use your skills and tools on a project that you understand and like. Time isn't an issue. Something along the lines of installing crown moulding in a room.

    Some things are DIY, because of the money that can be saved. Code enforcement won't check, so anybody can do it. I can buy this at HD, so it must be easy to install, like a microwave oven is.

    Those scare the hell out of me. The first type doesn't scare me.

    I think code enforcement and qualified inspecting is the answer. PROVE that the system installed will meet the CALCULATED heat gain and/or loss. Hold up real estate sales, if it doesn't comply.

    Noel

  12. #25
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Posts
    88
    Stevio you think that 20-30% gross profit is huge, knock yourslf out and do it yourself and I hope one of your day labor guys does not say o god my back at your house. The contractor adds 25% to the labor for taxes and comp. then adds overhead then hopefully you see the net profit.

  13. #26
    stevio is offline Member-Excite.com is bad address
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    23
    No, I don't think a 25-30% profit margin is too big. It would be perfect. I do think a 70% profit is.

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