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  1. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Posts
    288

    I keep my house 68 in the summer. Sometimes 70. Sometimes I just crank the damn thing down and let it run into the mid to low sixties. (It will do it at night and morning) Before I shower for work I crank it down from 68 to 58 and let it run while I get ready to go in. My humidity is always 48-52%. I am a HOT person too. Always have been. I can't stand it above 72 either. I have a premium system properly sized for my home. No mold problems. Don't worry about mold. My cooling bills have never been over $60 which is something I cannot believe, but it's true.

    I don't remember the exact heat load design, but it was setup for something like 70*or72* on a 96 outdoor temp. Something like that.


    The pros here will help you. ( I am not in the HVAC busniess) However even with my setup I am just not comfortable above 72 at all. Don't let anyone tell you what you SHOULD be comfy at--it's your house. Other people freeze to death as soon as they walk in my front door...its just me that's weird.

    However listen to the the guys, and you may want to call another contractor and pay him to clean up this mess for you. I had to pay a pro to come tweak my system because it was installed by clowns.

    For future references--let your air conditioning contractor know what temp you want to keep the house before he gives the quote. As you can tell here most of the guys here like most of the world are 74-78* people. Makes a big difference in sizing.

  2. #15
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    6
    Thank you for your replies. The sales guy stopped today. He basically went around and check the air flow of the system. He then went to the unit and changed the dip switches around.

    I played partially ignorant about me at least partially knowing about the settings when he talked about them. He indicated the unit was set at a 1.5 ton A/C (even though the panel has -- for the settings). So he changed it so it would think there was a 3.0 ton unit attached. He then dropped the CFM per ton air flow settings. Basically 1 and 8 are on and 2-7 are off.

    I wanted to say, "so you had 3 techs out here and they couldn't do that those first three times?". I asked many times what the negative points would be to make the furnace think it had a 3 ton unit when it had a 2 and he made no mention of possible frozen lines. He made a point to make it sound like that only more air would be moving since "cold air is heavier". But that my utility bill would not increase.

    I asked about Comfort-R and at least he indicated that was for reducing the humidity. He mentioned that we could go that route but didn't want to change to many variables at once.

    I asked him what the temp at the register and return were supposed to be and did not get anything real. Played the "it is the law to be able to go at least 15 below the outside temp". I also asked what the coil temps and pressures were supposed to be and really didn't get anything either. I asked if it was wired properly for the thermastat and he ensured me it was. He did recommend I go with a 2-stage thermostat eventually. He is the sales guy, so not much there.

    He did indicate that a tech would come by "some day when they get some time". All in all, the sales guy is a nice guy and so long as it starts cooling the place better and not hurting the system, I will be happy. But isn't that the point!

    After the dip switch changes, I do notice more air flow but we'll see if it cools any better.

    It was of course 73 and cool today so not much need to even have the A/C on. It is supposed to be at least 80 next couple days and high 80s next week, so we'll see.

    -Brandon

  3. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Ft.Worth,Tx
    Posts
    4,584
    Originally posted by cernicky
    Thank you for your replies. The sales guy stopped today. He basically went around and check the air flow of the system. He then went to the unit and changed the dip switches around.

    I played partially ignorant about me at least partially knowing about the settings when he talked about them. He indicated the unit was set at a 1.5 ton A/C (even though the panel has -- for the settings). So he changed it so it would think there was a 3.0 ton unit attached. He then dropped the CFM per ton air flow settings. Basically 1 and 8 are on and 2-7 are off.

    I wanted to say, "so you had 3 techs out here and they couldn't do that those first three times?". I asked many times what the negative points would be to make the furnace think it had a 3 ton unit when it had a 2 and he made no mention of possible frozen lines. He made a point to make it sound like that only more air would be moving since "cold air is heavier". But that my utility bill would not increase.

    I asked about Comfort-R and at least he indicated that was for reducing the humidity. He mentioned that we could go that route but didn't want to change to many variables at once.

    I asked him what the temp at the register and return were supposed to be and did not get anything real. Played the "it is the law to be able to go at least 15 below the outside temp". I also asked what the coil temps and pressures were supposed to be and really didn't get anything either. I asked if it was wired properly for the thermastat and he ensured me it was. He did recommend I go with a 2-stage thermostat eventually. He is the sales guy, so not much there.

    He did indicate that a tech would come by "some day when they get some time". All in all, the sales guy is a nice guy and so long as it starts cooling the place better and not hurting the system, I will be happy. But isn't that the point!

    After the dip switch changes, I do notice more air flow but we'll see if it cools any better.

    It was of course 73 and cool today so not much need to even have the A/C on. It is supposed to be at least 80 next couple days and high 80s next week, so we'll see.

    -Brandon
    You are not in Comfort-R or Enhanced mode unless 5-6 are on which for the first 1.5 minutes you get 50% of airflow ,after 5 minutes you get 80% airflow and 7.5 minutes you are at 100% air flow which gives you the humidity removal that this furnace was designed to do.
    Call your local Trane dealer and ask for a Comfort Specialist to set-up your system if you are not pleased with the installation contractor.

    Trane "The New Standard Of Living."
    "Everyday above ground, is a good day".
    "But everyday that you have made a difference in someones life, may insure you stay above ground a little longer".<aircooled>

  4. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    North Richland Hills, Texas
    Posts
    14,915
    That is the wrong furnace for a 2 ton system, if the sales guy set it for a 3 ton system and 350 cfm per ton, the system is now trying to push 1050 cfm, wich is still much higher than it should for a 2 ton system.

    You can change a few settings to get down to 875 CFM, wich is only slightly more than the 800 CFM a 2 ton system needs.

    Absolutely have them set up Comfort-R. I can't beleive they are reluctant to do it, lol.

    The dip switches should be set as follows:
    1=off
    2=on
    3=off
    4=on
    5=on
    6=on
    7=off
    8=on

    In addition to those dip switch settings, a jumper needs to be installed between Y and O so that Comfort-R will work properly.

    If the change to the dip switch settings, plus correcting the refrigerant charge after the new airflow settings are enabled, doesn't fix the problem, make them put in the correct furnace for a 2 ton system.

    Get a Trane field tech rep involved ASAP also.

    [Edited by mark beiser on 06-20-2005 at 07:34 PM]
    If more government is the answer, then it's a really stupid question.

  5. #18
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Northern Virginia, Fairfax County
    Posts
    641
    I am a home owner with a Trane system using an XV 80 furnace and an XL-19i for A/C, with the Trane two stage thermostat.

    You have a lot of good advice from the techs here, especially about the use of Comfort-R. Having the sales guy say the techs will be back when they have time is putting you off. They already have your money.

    Two points. You say they added a return from the game room. Please give more info. What size room? What temperatures did it keep on hot days with the old system? Is it an add-on to the house? Perhaps the new return is adding a big load to the A/C, in addition to all the refrigerant charge and dip switch problems.

    For most people, when you need to run the thermostat down to 70 or 72 degrees, the system is not doing a good job at removing humidity. So people call for that temperature to force the system to run longer to remove the humidity, and perhaps the air ends up feeling clammy. If the system is properly designed, sized, and installed to keep humidity down between 45 and 55 percent, most people feel comfortable at 75 to 78 degrees.

    Another point. Someone here mentioned getting a Trane Comfort Specialist. You can get a bead on one at:
    http://trane.com/Residential/DealerInfo/DealerInfo.aspx
    Enter your zip code.

    If you spend money going this route, you could ask Home Depot and your original contractor to reimburse you. But to be fair to them, you might be better off to give them a warning first and ask them to get their regional Trane rep over to your house to teach them how to do the job right.

    Al

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    San Luis Obispo County, CA
    Posts
    215
    Originally posted by alinnova
    I am a home owner with a Trane system using an XV 80 furnace and an XL-19i for A/C, with the Trane two stage thermostat.


    Another point. Someone here mentioned getting a Trane Comfort Specialist. You can get a bead on one at:
    http://trane.com/Residential/DealerInfo/DealerInfo.aspx
    Enter your zip code.


    Al
    Depending on where you are, this link may not get you any closer to a Trane Comfort Specialist than you are now. In my area, this search returns Home Depot, and the Hack company they use here for installs.

    Niether is a Comfort Specialist or NATE certified, both points that Trane stresses on their web site.

    Start complaining to Home Depot and don't stop until its fixed. Write letters to the main office, you might have to do that to get a good response.

    The response by them that they will "send a tech around when they get a chance" is totally unacceptable.

    How did you pay for this system?
    If you used a credit card, and you should have, NEVER pay by cash or check for something like this. Contact them and get the forms to dispute the charge. Tell Home Depot and the installing contractor you are going to do this. It will help get their attention and they may just "get a chance" to send someone out who knows what they are doing to fix your system.

    If the system proves to be undersized, have them remove it and replace it with one that is properly sized. You should only pay the difference between the cost of the small and larger unit. Don't pay for any additional labor.

    Don't stop until you get what you want. You paid a premium price by going with Home Depot, and you should get premium service.

    The Better Business Bureau is usually a waste of time, but it costs nothing to file a complaint. File one and send copies to Home Depot, both the local store and national headquarters and the installing company.

    Good luck, and I hope you eventually get the system and comfort you paid for.

  7. #20
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    6
    The system is clearly putting out more air and is much cooler than it has been to date after the recent changes. It was 74 in the house today (80 with 55% humid outside) but "felt" much cooler. I would have set the level lower than that but my wife was actually complaining about it being too cold (for once). My area is due to have near 90 (and likely very high humidity) in the next week so that will be a decent test.

    Besides the dip switch thing, I closed the vents downstairs. I had not previously had to do that with the old system.

    As far as the return. My house is a split entry. The "2nd floor" has the dining/kitchen/bath and three bedrooms, which sits on top of the "1st floor" which is at least 1/2 underground with a game room, laundry, and 2 car garage. They put the return in the game room which is about 10x20 max. The front door has a small area which has stairs going up and down, thus the split part.

    My old system had a 100K BTU furnace and a 2 ton A/C. I used to set the A/C at 70 and it would go to 69 for some reason before kicking off. Both older units were at least a dozen years old.

    I did use my Home Depot credit card and have 12 months no pay or interest so I indirectly have not spent a dime. Most 3rd party contractors through home stores are kind of "grip it and rip it" but the place they went with is very reputable and felt the sales guy (who was the one who did the dip switches) was much better than the "used car salesmen" approach I got from the independant guys that actually returned my phone call. I chose them for this very reason that if there was a problem, someone may actually listen. In my old duplex, I split the furnace on the up/down apartment so that each unit would have a furnace. The place put in a twin furnace but did not separate the returns so one would come on and suck the air out of one apartment and then cause the other to come on and that loop would continue, so I was even less efficient than the 50 year old system that was there. Oh, and they didn't put a FLUE liner in the chimney so all of the old plaster is chipping everywhere. So I did not have a good previous experience with a so called reputable local place either.


    --------------------------------------------------

    Is it worth me spending the $50 to do a Manual-J software setup of my house to see what I really should have?

    Would there be a fee to have a Trane tech come out?

    Thanks for all the comments. I don't believe I need to take any action on contacting Trane or ask for reimbursement or newer system just yet, but I do want to ensure that by pushing more air and the system thinking it has a 3 ton system is not going to hurt the system or void some type of warranty. I have no written record that they switched the dip switches so I can imagine their response in five years if it were to break down and they would indicate that I did the changes.

    1) Is setting the furnace for 3 ton on a 2 ton system
    something to be cause for alarm as far as warranty or life of the system?

    2) Is setting the furnace for 3 ton on a 2 ton system something to be cause for alarm for added cooling bills?

    3) Someone mentioned having them install a furnace that would properly handle my 2 ton unit. Would that not be a smaller one and thus provide less heat?

    -Brandon

  8. #21
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    6
    Funny, I typed my zip code (15068) into the trane link someone mentioned and the two places it mentions on the top are the two I have had my experiences with!


  9. #22
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Northern Virginia, Fairfax County
    Posts
    641
    Originally posted by cernicky
    The system is clearly putting out more air and is much cooler than it has been to date after the recent changes. It was 74 in the house today (80 with 55% humid outside) but "felt" much cooler. I would have set the level lower than that but my wife was actually complaining about it being too cold (for once). My area is due to have near 90 (and likely very high humidity) in the next week so that will be a decent test.
    A fellow homeowner here again. Please list the dip switch settings are they are now for the pros here to look at. It appears from what you say that the settings do not match what Mark Beiser said to do.

    Is the system really putting out "more air"? Your first list of settings had 3=on and 4=off calling for 450 CFM/TON. Mark's list is for 3=off and 4=on to give you 350 CFM/TON. With 1=off 2=on for 2.5 ton setting, this gives you 875 CFM total which is still a bit higher than what you should have for a 2 ton system. In a system that is correctly sized for the humid climate, the cooling demand, and the duct system of the house, you should get better dehumidification when the air over the evaporator coil moves at the correct speed, giving you better comfort at a given or higher thermostat setting. Faster flow over the coil does not let the coil draw as much moisture out of the air, making the air feel more clammy.

    Is Comfort-R set? If so, you will notice the speed of the furnace fan changing as it works through the cycle for better dehumidification.

    Originally posted by cernicky

    Besides the dip switch thing, I closed the vents downstairs. I had not previously had to do that with the old system.
    I do that in my split foyer house with this new Trane system.

    Originally posted by cernicky

    My old system had a 100K BTU furnace and a 2 ton A/C. I used to set the A/C at 70 and it would go to 69 for some reason before kicking off. Both older units were at least a dozen years old.
    Now you have an 80K BTU furnace. That is good if the old furnace was oversized and not running efficiently, giving you short and frequent blasts of too much heat.


    --------------------------------------------------
    Originally posted by cernicky


    Is it worth me spending the $50 to do a Manual-J software setup of my house to see what I really should have?

    Would there be a fee to have a Trane tech come out?
    With all the attention you've already given to this, and with the questions about the sizing of both the A/C and the furnace, you'll probably be happier doing the Manual-J yourself. I assume the contractor did not do one.

    There should be no fee for a Trane regional or factory rep to come out.

    Originally posted by cernicky


    Thanks for all the comments. I don't believe I need to take any action on contacting Trane or ask for reimbursement or newer system just yet, but I do want to ensure that by pushing more air and the system thinking it has a 3 ton system is not going to hurt the system or void some type of warranty. I have no written record that they switched the dip switches so I can imagine their response in five years if it were to break down and they would indicate that I did the changes.

    1) Is setting the furnace for 3 ton on a 2 ton system
    something to be cause for alarm as far as warranty or life of the system?

    2) Is setting the furnace for 3 ton on a 2 ton system something to be cause for alarm for added cooling bills?

    3) Someone mentioned having them install a furnace that would properly handle my 2 ton unit. Would that not be a smaller one and thus provide less heat?
    Back to the possible settings of dip switches 1 and 2. The best you can do is to make the furnace think you have a 2 1/2 ton A/C, as Mark Beiser recommended. If it remains set for a 3 ton system, as I understand the theory, your blower fan will get more revs over time, and you will not get as much dehumidification as you should. But I leave it for the pros to say whether there is any bad effect on the operation of the TXV and the condensing unit.

    As for the bills, the harder the system works at dehumidification, that is, dealing with latent heat, theoretically if nothing else changes, the more electricity you are using. But if you end up raising the thermostat like your wife wants, you should end up saving on the electric bill.

    Looking at your dip switch link, note the dip switches 1 and 2.
    http://home.comcast.net/~brandon.cer...ac/xv80dip.jpg

    It seems that the XV-80 series furnace has two ton settings on their 60K BTU furnace and one of their 100K BTU units. Go figure. Maybe the Manual J drill will help you work this out. And maybe the 80K furnace you have is the best option.

    Good Luck
    Al

  10. #23
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Northern Virginia, Fairfax County
    Posts
    641
    Originally posted by cernicky
    Funny, I typed my zip code (15068) into the trane link someone mentioned and the two places it mentions on the top are the two I have had my experiences with!

    Looks like those guys really need some refresher training.

    Al

  11. #24
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    San Luis Obispo County, CA
    Posts
    215
    Originally posted by alinnova
    Originally posted by cernicky
    Funny, I typed my zip code (15068) into the trane link someone mentioned and the two places it mentions on the top are the two I have had my experiences with!

    Looks like those guys really need some refresher training.

    Al
    Told ya so...

  12. #25
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    26
    I prefer the temperature in the house to be between 70 and 72 in the summer depending on the humidity.

    The humidity would have to be awfully low(out West maybe) for 75+ to feel comfortable to me.


  13. #26
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    South Carolina
    Posts
    1,167
    Cernicky a word of advice. Whenever purchasing services in the trade industry a good rule of thumb is if the guy coming to give your estimate has khaki pants on and a golf shirt toting a brief case with a bunch of brochures...then send him on his way. You want to buy from the person who is doing the install and that can service the unit or with the owner of the actual company. When you purchase from a company with a payed salesman you simply will pay more for the same equipment you may pay less for somewhere else. Imho professional salespeople have no place in our particular industry as far as homeowners go. Secondly never go by the fact that youve "heard" they are a reputable company. The only way to know for sure is to get 3 good references on installs that company has done that are at "least" 5 years old. Reason being is you will find out better how they have provided service over the long haul and a better idea of how that companies particular brand has performed. I know you say it is cooling better but I personally would get a second oppinion from another company on whether that unit is charged properly...my gut instint tells me you still have problems in that regard even though you are getting better cooling now with the fan changes. Spend the money for a service call from another company just for your own piece of mind. Something tells me your unit is running continuously when it should not.

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