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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Poland, Warsaw
    Posts
    9

    ventilation of rooms without windows

    HI,
    Please take a look at attached schematic drawing (link to the original drawing in better quality is below drawing).

    This is commercial buliding with just a groundfloor. Hatched rooms have no windows (conference room and storage room). All the windows are equiped with supply openings and there is exhaust fan in KITCHEN and WC.
    Please tell me how should I ventilate that rooms with no windows (investor doesnt want to have central mechanical supply-extract ventilation). The only way is to use natural ventilation or individual mechanical extract ventilation. Do you think that natural (gravity) ventilation will work in this case?


    http://i53.tinypic.com/qq1hth.jpg

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Brooklyn NY- you always know someone from Brooklyn
    Posts
    50
    Macieto, i cannot view the drawing, but based on what you have given here, first thing i would do is look up the building code for the area where the building is located. there might be specific rules for the amount of outside air that needs to be brought into the space (depending on occupancy and use).
    You mentioned this is a ground floor space, with a roof above the ground floor I presume, and one area will be a conference room- how will this room be heated and cooled? the storage room might have different requirements. This ties into the what i had stated above.
    Most codes probably will require a specified number of CFM per sq ft be brought in from outside and conditioned prior to delivery to the space.

    Having said that, depending on local codes, roof mounted fans, or sidewall fans can be used to pull air out of the space. this will allow for ventilation, and you will need to find a way to bring in air from another space, possibily undercut doors, of door louvers? conditioning of the space is another issue.
    there are several ways to answer this, but knowing what the local building code requiremenst are will help.

    good luck in your endeavor

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    southern california
    Posts
    535
    Using the building codes in the USA, there is no way to ventilate the rooms mentioned without either installing windows in the rooms or by using mechanical ventilation. The exhaust can not work properly either without the addition of makeup air

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Poland, Warsaw
    Posts
    9
    Quote Originally Posted by Mikeymoe View Post
    Macieto, i cannot view the drawing
    You cant see the drawing I have pasted? Strange

    Anyway Hatched room called "sala konferencyjna" means "conference room" and hatched room called "magazyn" means "storage room".
    There is no code for it because building is placed in Poland (Europe) - I just ask here because Americans have bigger knowledge about ventilation and AC than other countries. I am Polish mechanical designer and I live in Poland.

    In Poland the law says that when room have no windows than there have to be installed natural or mechanical (fan) ventilation. Of course I would use air conditioning with supply and extracted air in all area, but the investor do not want to have it because he is miserly. He want to use in that two rooms without windows natural (gravity) ventilation. And I am telling him that it will not work. But maybe I am wrong and there is some kind of way to ventilate that two rooms well without using mechanical ventilation/AC (with no fan and duct system)

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Brooklyn NY- you always know someone from Brooklyn
    Posts
    50
    you are cought between a rock and hard place here.
    If you install a gooseneck on the roof, basicaly a sheetmetal duct with a 180 degree elbow and a wire mesh screen, that would be as much gravity ventilation as you could get, but that would be dependent on whatever wind patterns exist on the roof-and also and temprature difference in other words, inconsistent ventilation. this is similar to a chimney effect for a boiler.
    AC wizard is correct in his statement either windows in the room(s) or mechanical means would be the only way to ventilate.
    just make sure the investor is aware of the complications of not following the law, and dont risk your business either. dont get hurt...

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Poland, Warsaw
    Posts
    9
    Quote Originally Posted by Mikeymoe View Post
    you are cought between a rock and hard place here.
    If you install a gooseneck on the roof, basicaly a sheetmetal duct with a 180 degree elbow and a wire mesh screen, that would be as much gravity ventilation as you could get, but that would be dependent on whatever wind patterns exist on the roof-and also and temprature difference in other words, inconsistent ventilation. this is similar to a chimney effect for a boiler.
    AC wizard is correct in his statement either windows in the room(s) or mechanical means would be the only way to ventilate.
    just make sure the investor is aware of the complications of not following the law, and dont risk your business either. dont get hurt...
    hmm, ok!
    Thanks for advices :-)

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