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  1. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    18
    Originally posted by ozone drone
    Pretty passionate over 134a...Hey you ain't the naked guy I had arrested for trying to get it on with my Chiller #2 are ya? (Each of the 3 chillers has 750# r134A)
    Dag namit….. How did you know it was me????????
    !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    It’s a long story of convoluted logic and strange correlations.

    To me, the government regulations on the refrigeration/air conditioning industry resemble the regulations on the alcohol industry so closely that it’s uncanny. I abide by the rules, but I don’t like them.

    To me, it almost appears like the government is trying to insert control over who has the “privilege” to bestow the luxury of COOL.

    If I ever get up enough gumption to type it out, I will post it as a new thread.

    It will be titled…….The quest for illegal COOL.

    The story of G men, Revenuers, COOL runners, and illegal cool.


  2. #15
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Victoria,Tx
    Posts
    6,680

    134a

    You build it and we will come. I shot some R-12 in my house unit a year ago. Every thing seems cool to cold around here @ 95 degrees outside. Roy

  3. #16
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    East Stroudsburg, PA
    Posts
    13,215
    R12 was a very common refrigerant many years ago, for light commercial and residential cooling.

    Have you ever actually seen the size of a 5 ton air handler and condensing unit that uses 12???????

  4. #17
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    2,927
    Although most of your post went way over my head,I am glad to see your question.I hope to see some an answer,too.

    Carrier did make 134a air condition systems.Here is a condensing unit model number: 38TNO48320.

    I tried to get a link to the service manual and associated literature ,but didnt have any luck.

    I assume this model pre-dates the advent of 410a.Why it was discontinued,I do not know.

    Maybe it used too much gas.

  5. #18
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Cincinnati
    Posts
    7,977
    I can see the headlines now. Long time HVAC-Talk member R12 in a vicious battle with new member R134A. They both want their favorite refrigerant made into the norm. R12 just got fired again so he's on a bus to Washington to become a lobbier for the return of R12......

    Somebody else finish the story I have to go.

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    18
    Originally posted by condenseddave
    R12 was a very common refrigerant many years ago, for light commercial and residential cooling.

    Have you ever actually seen the size of a 5 ton air handler and condensing unit that uses 12???????
    If you are referring to the size of some of the old ones with huge pipes and everything? As in, they look like they should be in the middle of a Texaco oil refinery, instead of in the equipment room in the back of the building………

    Back then, they built the things to last!
    That customer was paying top dollar for cooling back in those days.
    When he bought a 5 ton AC, gosh darn it, That sucker better weigh 5 ton!!!!!

    The size of some of that stuff resulted from over designing. A modern 5 ton evaporator/condenser would be a small bit larger than their R22 counterparts, if you wanted to keep the same temperature drops and everything.

    Originally posted by jacob perkins
    Carrier did make 134a air condition systems.Here is a condensing unit model number: 38TNO48320.

    I tried to get a link to the service manual and associated literature ,but didnt have any luck.

    I assume this model pre-dates the advent of 410a.Why it was discontinued,I do not know.
    I know.
    I cried the day that I heard it was being discontinued.

    (Conspiracy mode on)
    They probably started production of it, thinking that the government was going to restrict the sale of HFC refrigerants, like R134a. Which would of forced people to call a tech, every time they needed a top up on refrigerant, or other maintenance. That would of allowed the techs to constantly push the customers to upgrade. Or even allow the techs to flatly refuse to recharge a slightly leaky system, which would basically force the customers to upgrade to new equipment.

    But, when they found out that they wasn’t going to restrict HFC sales, they had to come up with a custom refrigerant so that they could price it to the point that it would allow them to keep defacto control over their supply stream. And the price is to the point that it makes it uneconomical to recharge a slightly leaky system. So you end up with the same result. You can force custimers to replace equipment that is reaching the end of it’s life cycle.

    How can you control the life cycle of your product in the field, if you can’t control the stuff that keeps them running?

    It all means more money for the manufactures.
    (conspiracy mode off)

  7. #20
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    where the beer flows like wine
    Posts
    2,871
    All jokes aside, you are 100% right, the corporations and their government servants manipulate the public into believing such fallacies like refrigerants are bad for the environment and the ozone layer etc.
    its all about expired patents and profits. The joke is on us the people, I can only imagine the masters behind the lies and manipulations laughing out loud in a fancy meeting room somewhere, they feed us crap, we eat it and ask for more.

  8. #21
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    I don't know
    Posts
    2,909
    ^

    General public's attitude towards our energy predicament: "I reject the reality of finite resource depletion and substitute it with my own; energy is infinite, we just need an alternative storage medium to run the cars on. The economy can grow indefinitely - we just need to "green" everything! Technology is energy! Peak what?"

  9. #22
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    wedged in freezer shelf
    Posts
    7,048
    Quote Originally Posted by hvacpope View Post
    All jokes aside, you are 100% right, the corporations and their government servants manipulate the public into believing such fallacies like refrigerants are bad for the environment and the ozone layer etc.
    its all about expired patents and profits. The joke is on us the people, I can only imagine the masters behind the lies and manipulations laughing out loud in a fancy meeting room somewhere, they feed us crap, we eat it and ask for more.
    410A GWP = 1725

    R22 GWP =1700

    134A GWP = 1300

    These are funny #'s they give us.

    Anyway could there be a velocity and oil return problem using 134
    22 and 410 fly thru them pipes and POE stinks.
    “If You Can Dodge A Wrench You Can Dodge A Ball”

  10. #23
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    307
    Quote Originally Posted by hvacpope View Post
    All jokes aside, you are 100% right, the corporations and their government servants manipulate the public into believing such fallacies like refrigerants are bad for the environment and the ozone layer etc.
    its all about expired patents and profits. The joke is on us the people, I can only imagine the masters behind the lies and manipulations laughing out loud in a fancy meeting room somewhere, they feed us crap, we eat it and ask for more.
    Nice avatar !
    Medusa was my neighbors cousin. Actually met her a while back.
    Extended dehydration is the key

  11. #24
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    wedged in freezer shelf
    Posts
    7,048
    mr 134a
    Forgot the other part about 134a being more flammable
    Restore the three R's
    R12
    R22
    R502
    “If You Can Dodge A Wrench You Can Dodge A Ball”

  12. #25
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
    Posts
    68,558
    hvacpope was bored. And decided to revive a 6 year old thread.

    While using R134A would be interesting. Part of his theory is wrong, in that Carrier helped develop R410A, which is not a regulated refrigerant.
    Contractor locator map

    How-to-apply-for-Professional

    How many times must one fix something before it is fixed?

  13. #26
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    I don't know
    Posts
    2,909
    Quote Originally Posted by itsiceman View Post
    410A GWP = 1725

    R22 GWP =1700

    134A GWP = 1300

    These are funny #'s they give us.

    Anyway could there be a velocity and oil return problem using 134
    22 and 410 fly thru them pipes and POE stinks.
    ...and GWP has exactly what to do with ozone depletion?
    General public's attitude towards our energy predicament: "I reject the reality of finite resource depletion and substitute it with my own; energy is infinite, we just need an alternative storage medium to run the cars on. The economy can grow indefinitely - we just need to "green" everything! Technology is energy! Peak what?"

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