Florida light commercial installation - Page 4
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  1. #40
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Philadelphia PA
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    2,190

    WOW zzonko, I guess you got my number!

    Geez, I so needed to get your approval.
    I don't know how I can live with myself, with this devastating rejection.
    I just hope when I grow up, I can be just as good as you think you are!

    Try to remember back to when your Mom told you if you don't have anything nice to say.... DON'T SAY ANYTHING AT ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!
    She was the sage, listen to her

    Best, Mike
    You have got to learn from other people's mistakes! Because God knows you don't live long enough to make them all yourself !!!!!!!!

  2. #41
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Seattle WA
    Posts
    1,225
    Nice and clean. In the spirit of the wall of pride I will give my 2 cents... Duct board sucks in my opinion, sheet metal is cheap and its 100 times better, both in look and performance. Also, I would have made the duct way bigger for 7 tons of air, it has to howl to some degree, what was the static reading on the supply?
    America; first we fight for our freedom,
    then we make laws to take it away.

    -Alfred E Newman

  3. #42
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    East Coast FL
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    1,056
    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyTree View Post
    Nice and clean. In the spirit of the wall of pride I will give my 2 cents... Duct board sucks in my opinion, sheet metal is cheap and its 100 times better, both in look and performance. Also, I would have made the duct way bigger for 7 tons of air, it has to howl to some degree, what was the static reading on the supply?
    Thank you for the comment.

    No howl.

    0.1 in. was the design.

    Did not take an actual reading after start up.

  4. #43
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    East Coast FL
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    1,056
    Quote Originally Posted by zzonko View Post
    Oh please dude. Its simply a economical (cheap) install that was designed to miss a 2 bulb flourescent fixture. you wanna be the king of cheap thats yer biz, but dont tell us to "open our minds". Also if you want to play sage here, stalking guys hurts your credibility.
    "king of cheap" ??

    nice one.

    Post some of your jobs so we can all see how it is supposed to look.

  5. #44
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Philadelphia PA
    Posts
    2,190

    LibertyTree you are right

    Duct board sucks in my opinion,
    but only on the return side
    On the Supply side it blows with 1/8 the leakage and better acoustics and half the first cost.

    IMO it take a good mechanic to do anything right using whatever material is spec'd. Tell me, do you use that cheap PVC for condensate or use copper?

    Before you just reached that conclusion, what experience did you have with the material?
    You have got to learn from other people's mistakes! Because God knows you don't live long enough to make them all yourself !!!!!!!!

  6. #45
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    East Coast FL
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    1,056
    Quote Originally Posted by genduct View Post
    but only on the return side
    On the Supply side it blows with 1/8 the leakage and better acoustics and half the first cost.

    IMO it take a good mechanic to do anything right using whatever material is spec'd. Tell me, do you use that cheap PVC for condensate or use copper?

    Before you just reached that conclusion, what experience did you have with the material?
    Indeed genduct.

    Ductboard has a bad reputation because of jobs put in by people who did not know the craft and have the skill.

    It was taught to me by an old school master.

    It is a fine material.

    Is wood a bad material for houses because sometimes it is put in by non-craftsman?

    Ductboard is a lost art.

    It is amazing how quiet and smooth a superior ductboard system can be.

    But why is it un-desirable on the return side?

    Friction drop?

    Size accordingly.
    Last edited by AiResearch; 07-10-2011 at 10:16 PM.

  7. #46
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    586
    Duct board is a lost art? Cheap and easy way, not an art.

    We don't use the stuff. I hate it. If I want sound deadening then I line the metal duct. Not that hard to do.

    Half the battle of doing a job like this is having all the metal fit when you show up to do the work. Difference between a nice job and an ok job. Just takes a few minutes to measure everything and have it all fit when you show up..


    You said it 90's on the other side of the wall? Is there a 90 with a radius or just a box with a box coming off it at 90 degrees?

    I would have came straight up off the top into a large 90, short piece of metal, then into an broadway 90 to make my turn down the wall. All metal of course. Using 90's instead of a box into another box makes a huge difference in airflow.



    We don't use any duct board!
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  8. #47
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Seattle WA
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    Quote Originally Posted by genduct View Post
    but only on the return side
    On the Supply side it blows with 1/8 the leakage and better acoustics and half the first cost.

    IMO it take a good mechanic to do anything right using whatever material is spec'd. Tell me, do you use that cheap PVC for condensate or use copper?

    Before you just reached that conclusion, what experience did you have with the material?
    When I run metal duct I seal the crap out of it, if its a transition I install the back and the two sides first, then seal it from the inside, install the front then silicone, no leakage WHATSOEVER. On rectangular duct I measure my pieces with sealing in mind, I make sure there are no seams that can't be sealed and if there are I'll cut an access in below it, seal it from the inside and put a professional looking patch over the access hole (only if the duct isn't exposed in a finished location) Ductboard is crummy and will not last like sheet metal duct. I prefer to do the highest quality installations I can and ductboard does not have any place in mine. Ductboard on the supply is extra bad in my mind because of the fine particulates that inevitably end up in the airstream. As far as the PVC VS copper analogy goes, that's comparing apples to oranges. Sheet metal VS ductboard has many variables to consider, condensation is simple and straightforward. I worked for a guy years ago that loved ductboard because it was cheap and didn't require the skill that sheet metal does to install. One time I was up in an attic, lost my balance and leaned up against the supply trunk and it collapsed like a house of cards, from that point on I vowed never to use that garbage again (but had to for a while longer working for him haha) Anyway, bottom line is that its inferior to sheet metal, thats all I'm sayin'
    America; first we fight for our freedom,
    then we make laws to take it away.

    -Alfred E Newman

  9. #48
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Central California
    Posts
    186
    I bet airesearch will never post another pic on this site again after this beating. Dude the install looks good....bottom line. The customer will see that and say wow what a nice job. And if it keeps them cool with ease then they will call you back for the next install. Period. No matter how perfect you think the job is somebody will trash it. I see it all the time. We are a service based company and when we get a new account we always comment on the old companies work performed.

    Out here all the new houses have flex duct. I know everyone hates it. In my opinion who cares. My home has flex in it. It has been a 105 here for two weeks. Place stays at 75 all day. Very quietly and my power bill is 95 bucks last month on 2400 sq ft. So what's the problem? I guess every region has their own way of doing things.

    I say good job. Pat yourself on the back and crack a beer.
    Only Chuck Norris can slam a revolving door

  10. #49
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Philadelphia PA
    Posts
    2,190

    Where to begin?

    jimmyed
    Half the battle of doing a job like this is having all the metal fit when you show up to do the work. Difference between a nice job and an ok job. Just takes a few minutes to measure everything and have it all fit when you show up..
    I agree and if you are skilled enough to measure your job for unforgiving sheet metal than you have the base line skill to take advantage of DB's (ductboard) main advantage: You can easily cut the pieces to length and even field offset to avoid the unforseen. I think with the ability to modify, it takes a better mechanic to work with board IMO

    LibertyTree
    no leakage WHATSOEVER.
    Only on the Space Shuttle or submarines do we have NO LEAKS or maybe very small/ manageable ones.
    sealed residential duct has the EXPECTED LEAK RATE of 48, the same as unsealed commercial sheet metal. DB is 3, we use 6 because you may need reinforcing so they make an allowance.
    Too bad you had a bad experience and closed the book on DB before you read it. The point about PVC and cooper is apples to oranges Hmm , I am old enough to remember the same remarks being heaped upon PVC when it was first introduced and the "real plumbers" said the same thing

    AiResearch
    There is no problem with DB on the return. The suck / blow thing was my attempt at humor and turning a phrase.
    Before you say it... I am not quitting my day job for a life as a comic
    You have got to learn from other people's mistakes! Because God knows you don't live long enough to make them all yourself !!!!!!!!

  11. #50
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Philadelphia PA
    Posts
    2,190

    OH Mr Kev

    You have got the right idea and right attitude.
    I'm on your side
    You have got to learn from other people's mistakes! Because God knows you don't live long enough to make them all yourself !!!!!!!!

  12. #51
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    East Coast FL
    Posts
    1,056
    mr kev and genduct :

    ya know , board is like wood working , it is a craft , you field fabricate and the fit and finish is all up to you and your skills.

    speaking of wood , my bead board shelf over the return with moulding and paint was a nice touch , if i do say so.

    really though , you guys are great , thank you for the support.

    i'd repay in a heartbeat.

  13. #52
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    East Coast FL
    Posts
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    genduct you say field offset ,

    how about full radius elbows , throat and heel.

    there is a trick.

    it is nice.

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