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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    90

    Infinity System Issues

    I'm not good at being brief, but ... deep breath ... here goes:

    SYSTEM:
    58MVC
    24ANA
    3 zones
    Honeywell tru-steam, 6gpd
    Skuttle media filter
    Lenox healthy climate HEPA

    HOME:
    Built 2008. R-18 walls; R-50 attic. 2-pane windows.
    Ranch.
    1900sf main, 9' ceilings
    1900sf basement, 9' ceilings

    A year into ownership, I changed filters on my HEPA. Noted the model #. Curiosity led me to look at a few things online. Found out it was the HEPA-20. A CHUNK undersized for our home.

    He replaced the -20 with the -40.

    Our 2nd truSTEAM failed. First one failed in first 90d.

    They put the new (identical one) in.

    Four days later, it's taken the 25% RH to 31%.

    Only.

    *I* didn't verify the DIP switch settings, but ... will. Old one humidified with/without heating call.

    Similarly, I did a little digging. 6GPD seems WAY undersized for the cubic feet of our (pretty tight) home, in dry, dry Northern Colorado.

    Next ... when I was trying to get the truSTEAM to work ... the static pressure self test ran. 1.19" on HIGH fire. Replaced Skuttle filter. SP dropped by only 0.02".

    Contractor sent guy to "read pascals" with manometer. HE read 0.48" on high, "the old fashioned way."

    Installer says:

    The Infinity Control uses an algorithm incorporating watt draw and rpms of the motor. Some times we get accurate info and other times we don’t. For example, if we do not hook up any duct work to the furnace, the blower has very little load against it and it confuses the system from an rpm standpoint on the blower and we get a high static pressure indication.
    I'm skeptical.

    If the Infinity Controller is -- effectively -- guessing, then it's making a lot of decisions on bad info, compromising performance and efficiency, no ?

    So far, I'm VERY impressed with the Infinity setup, but .... sadly ... am losing confidence in the installer.

    I'm considering finding a good consultant, to run Manual J, Manual S, and Manual D -- something I never *saw* from the installer (swears he ran them all).

    Any of this sound fishy to any of you ?

    Time for me to have the system looked at, by different eyes ???

    Thanks so much....

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
    Posts
    67,876
    The Infinity control is suppose to be pretty accurate, so I would wonder how the tech only got .48" in high. I'd tend to believe the Infinity control was reporting closer to true static. The tech may not have taken his readings in the right areas. It would be a reading of 119.5 pascals to equal .48".

    The 6 GPD Truesteam is underside for even tight 1,200 sq ft homes.

    A third party static test wouldn't hurt.

    What size is your furnace? Full model number.
    Contractor locator map

    How-to-apply-for-Professional

    How many times must one fix something before it is fixed?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    90
    Thanks so much for the reply. I'll let some pictures help me out, here:

    Furnace model #: 58MVC080 F-10114



    Humidifier model #: HM506W1005



    I see four holes that he drilled to run HIS SP tests. Note the plug in each hole:



    This one's just above the document box


    This one's half a foot or so above the "Carrier" badge:


    And the 4th one:


    Every online resource ... including the totally comprehensive Excel Worksheet I found .... calls the 6GPD WAY too low, too, but ... he's now telling me that -- "If anything, that unit is OVER-sized."



    Thanks !!

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    90
    By the way ...

    During construction, I was at the house when the furnace was delivered. He was set to install the 60K BTU version, although the 80K BTU was what was spec'd, and what I had paid for.

    I called to speak with him about it.

    He said that our house was better insulated than when the original specs were done (sounded reasonable), and that it was a universal Bad Thing to oversize the equipment.

    And I get that.

    My position, though, was that the MVC should be plenty smart enough NOT to "be oversized," with a continuously variable fan, and a three-stage burner.

    He agreed, so ... I have the 80K BTU.

    Thinking THAT might be why the SPs are high, on HIGH, I checked the "charts." According to those charts, the duct sizing should be the same for an 80K BTU furnace as for a 60K BTU.

    So ... as far as I can tell, that should NOT be the cause of the high SP readings on the controller.

    Make sense ?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    The Quad-Cities area (midwest).
    Posts
    2,630
    The controler is going to give you the true static pressure.

    Thank you for the pictures. I don't see enough of how the return was run, but I'm concerned from what I do see.

    Would you be able to give us the duct sizes? Not the grille size, but the duct.

    Is the return ALL round pipe? What size is the A/C?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    90
    In the 3-zone system, the:

    - main ducts are 10" x 10"
    - branches FROM the ducts are 6" dia

    The a/c unit is this guy:


    Lemme' see what I can figure out about the return....

    Thank you !

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    90
    I'm not sure about the return sizing. It's a ranch house. The return *grilles* in each room are in 2x4" stud walls, so ... my *guess* would be that they're just using the space between the studs as return air.

    If not, can you point me toward ... whatever it is I can take a picture of that will let you know ?

    This seems to be the supply. It runs to the outside wall, and reads 6"




    Here's the back of the mechanicals ... hoping that ... you can see important stuff !


    And ... the size of the ducts running to the registers. Measured at 6" dia.


  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    394
    I found on my unit that you will get the wrong static pressure if you change anything on the system without having it refind all the equipment and run a base static pressure test. Thus, if I close off returns or close supplies I have to have the system go through an install check to find everything and measure the pressures then it will read correctly.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    90
    Interesting, kirbinster. Thank you !

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    90
    Okay.

    Noticed something else. Might be helpful.

    The return air grilles, at each room, are on BOTH sides of the drywall. Can I presume, then, that this provides a pathway to the central "chase," above my stairwell ?

    If so, then ... the return duct should be the upper right corner of this picture, right ?



    I'll measure it.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    90
    From the big, high-mounted, central return air grille, there runs a ... maybe 12" diameter insulated flex-duct (looks exactly like the 6" diameter that provides fresh air) into the 16" x 25" box.

    Also running into that box are the inputs and outputs for the Lennox HEPA-40 filter.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    The Quad-Cities area (midwest).
    Posts
    2,630
    Quote Originally Posted by NBeener View Post
    From the big, high-mounted, central return air grille, there runs a ... maybe 12" diameter insulated flex-duct (looks exactly like the 6" diameter that provides fresh air) into the 16" x 25" box.

    Also running into that box are the inputs and outputs for the Lennox HEPA-40 filter.
    Let me see if I understand. I see the "drop" (the duct next to the furnace) connected to the filter. You are right about the 6" flex to the outside is the "fresh air" intake.

    I see from an earlier picture, off the front of the drop, is a galv. pipe maybe 7" in diameter? I assume this goes to a basement return grille?

    It sounds like your main house has one large return air grille and the rest are transfer grilles not connected to the system.

    Here's the million dollar question: does the 12" flex go from the top of the "drop" to a box in the wall were the grille is?

    Do I have it right?

    If so, then you are definately short on return. But I still would like to know the A/C size.

    Also what size is the centralize return air grille?

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Lynchburg, VA
    Posts
    72
    Quote Originally Posted by George2 View Post
    If so, then you are definately short on return. But I still would like to know the A/C size.
    Looks like it is 2 ton (A-coil) based on one of the pics and the model number in the original post.

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