New certification?

[atufano]

Have a quick question.

My boss goes away to a manufacturer's school.

Comes back proclaiming that we have to be EPA certified to work with R-410A.

I humor him, and let him babble on.

Now I know that some supply houses are selling training classes to get tech's familiar with the pressures and a refresher on techniques. Also to let them know that now evacuating to 500 microns is now an important thing, as it always has been.

My question is.

Is there some validity to his paranoia?

I figured that I would ask people who know what is going on.

[beenthere]

He's right, you still have to be section 608 certified to work with r410a.

[atufano]

Originally posted by beenthere
He's right, you still have to be section 608 certified to work with r410a.

I think I may have left out some information. We already have 608 cert. He's talking about additional certification.

[beenthere]

R410a is a type II, very high pressure.

So you already have your epa cert for it.

Check the epa web site, there is no additional cert listing for r410a. At this time.

[ct2]

The 410A certificate that I have is a cert that says I have completed the training and am certified in the safe handeling of 410A

The EPA may not require it , it may be that your employeer is requireing you to have it as a safety matter . There are differences between 410 and 22 that you need to be aware of before using it, as I am sure you know. I think thats what this cert is about

[atufano]

Originally posted by ct2
The 410A certificate that I have is a cert that says I have completed the training and am certified in the safe handeling of 410A

The EPA may not require it , it may be that your employeer is requireing you to have it as a safety matter . There are differences between 410 and 22 that you need to be aware of before using it, as I am sure you know. I think thats what this cert is about

I understand that and I already have 3-4 410A training classes under my belt. I have been to a few schools and they throw that in at the end of the class. He came back saying that the EPA is requiring a 410 certification ontop of your 608 cert. I find that hard to believe. He says that we are not allowed to service 410a unless we have an EPA cert saying that we can.

[miami mike]

Its not on the EPA website, so I wouldnt worry about it.

[ct2]

He says that we are not allowed to service 410a unless we have an EPA cert saying that we can.

I dont believe thats correct and if you have 3-4 classes in already , you are familiar with the differences. I think it is just a voluntary cert right now.

Where is Norm ? he will know

[atufano]

Originally posted by ct2
He says that we are not allowed to service 410a unless we have an EPA cert saying that we can.

I dont believe thats correct and if you have 3-4 classes in already , you are familiar with the differences. I think it is just a voluntary cert right now.

Where is Norm ? he will know

Only supply houses and manufacturers are supply these certifications, so what good are they if they are not mandatory or federally supported?

[beenthere]

Originally posted by atufano

Originally posted by ct2

Only supply houses and manufacturers are supply these certifications, so what good are they if they are not mandatory or federally supported?

If you need to file a warranty claim for a compressor, it may come in handy.

Thats why most manufacturers woundn't sell a 410a unit to a compamy unless some one there was certified.

[trane]

I think some of the manufactures are requiring that you have factory approved training before they will sell to you. I know that the local York distr. requires you attend there training first. I would say that it is to limit liability and warranty problems from incorrect installations.

[hvacprodmgr]

You are basically all correct.

There is no EPA certification required if you are already Type II under Sec 608. That already gives you your refrigerant certification for R410.

However.... Most manufacturers are "requiring" you to go thru some kind of formal R410 training so you are familiar with the differences in pressures and operation of units with R410.

That's basically all there is to it. Manufacturers want the techs to be familiar before they service the units. I know our technical service people and the factory service people ask if the tech has been thru a 410 class if they call in on a tech service call.

[hoozdis]

...an EPA requirement to be certified, its the manufacturer. They know if you dont know what you are doing with 410A then it means they will be having to warranty alot of equipment. By you being factory certified they will make more profit. Each manufacturer has their own classes. I got Lennox to honor my Trane cert.

[atufano]

Originally posted by trane
I think some of the manufactures are requiring that you have factory approved training before they will sell to you. I know that the local York distr. requires you attend there training first. I would say that it is to limit liability and warranty problems from incorrect installations.

I would understand manufacturer training to limit thier liability, but why now with 410? What about all the warranty issues with 22? How do they expect seasoned techniciains that will not change their practices?

I know guys that don't care about performing the correct procedures and all they know is that the pressures are going to be a little bit higher and that the oil that is used in 410a systems is acidic... Yes, they say that it is acidic. I know that it is hydroscopic, but not acidic.

[ct2]

atufano
quote:

Only supply houses and manufacturers are supply these certifications, so what good are they if they are not mandatory or federally supported?
__________________
No supply houses arent the only ones that supply these certs: I took the ESCO 410A exam

Norm is a proctor for ESCO so that is why I suggested that he would know

[atufano]

Originally posted by ct2
atufano
quote:

Only supply houses and manufacturers are supply these certifications, so what good are they if they are not mandatory or federally supported?
__________________
No supply houses arent the only ones that supply these certs: I took the ESCO 410A exam

Norm is a proctor for ESCO so that is why I suggested that he would know

I'm not here to knock anyone or give an absolute. In my area geographically, is from where I am speaking. We have supply houses, who double as schools, and manufacturer's.

I know that RSES supply's 410a cert's, and other companies give the certs for free online. I think that calling a refresher course, or safety training a certification is going a bit far. If this were the case, then shouldn't there be a cert for everytype of refrigerant? Each one has different characteristics, oils, and iddiosynchrocies.