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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    11

    Hmm

    I've got 2 Ruud 80% Gas Fur (UGLG-05EAUER).

    The tech that did my recent service showed me that both draft inducers had cracks in the case. He told me that he has seen it in all Ruuds of the same time frame as mine.

    He told me I have a CO concern - I disagreed since it made no sense to me that a leak into the area where airflow is being sucked into the burner is problem. (leak gets drawn into burner backthrough heatexchange, back to inducer) He seemed to agree with me, but told me that his boss had told him to still raise that concern when he sees these cracked inducers.

    Anyway, I agreed to the repairs since I was more worried about losing pressure and having something shutdown the units. The tech then told me that Ruud knew that the inducers were defective and that exact replacements aren't available. The original is a composite and the replacements are stainless steel. He told me he thought he had inducers that would fit, after I said "ok", he then told me I should probably get another tech to install them because he thought they were tricky and easy to mess up the install.

    Anyway, to make a long story short, I told him to give me his info and I'd call his company back when I was ready. He has me totally worried that they are going to put something in that is not quite right.

    Here are the details.

    Original cracked inducers are: Ametek 117104-01,

    He wants to replace them with Jakel 117847-07 #70-24157-03, 66838

    I tried to figure this out myself by doing a search at the rheem website, but the closest I came to a part lists was "Rheemmote.net" which I don't (or shouldn't) have access to.

    I know there are a lot of Rheem/Ruud experts here....is what he is suggesting the right part????? I'm hoping this is an approved Ruud part. Also, if there are a number of different manufactures of this part, are there any better ones, i.e., doesn't crack, also wouldn't mind if the jet engine noise was a little less.

    Thanks

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Concord, CA
    Posts
    2,633
    I've told customers on many occasions that one way they might be able to tell that they're dealing with a shyster is that they'll throw the term carbon monoxide out in the first five minutes and suggest that you may be getting dosed. There's nothing like threatening you with your life to motivate sales. That tech isn't yet comfortable with telling lies. But don't worry. A few years from now he'll deliver that line with much conviction.

    Anywho, that tech was obviously green and very nervous. Changing out that assembly takes 10 minutes if you're going slowly. The plastic versions fail so often that it's only one of two inducer assemblies that I stock on the van.

    It has finally been redesigned in all metal. I think there are non-OEM replacements. But I haven't bothered with them yet. The Rheem OEM part number I THINK you're looking for is 70-21496-83. Since that doesn't jive with you have you'll need further confirmation. Maybe Ruud changes the numbers a little. (Rheem and Ruud are one in the same.) Post the model number of the furnace and maybe a Rheem dealer can tell you correctly. I'm not one.

    Don't be shocked by how much they'll quote you. We can't talk prices on the forum. But it's plenty.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Toledo, Ohio, United States
    Posts
    12,901
    Seems like he didn't really know what he was doing, an idiot should be able to install those three wires and about 4 or 5 screws and a hose. They did crack and ruud claimed it was installation related in some cases. To high of a temp rise. Some may have been but I have seen a lot of them cracked and made sure the rise wasn't out of line but that can easily change with a plugged filter.

    Have them changed it can affect the operation of the furnace. You could get CO if you had a blocked vent. I'm not going to go into all of the details of how it could happen. My recommendation is to replace them.
    No Heat No Cool You need Action Fast

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Niantic, Illinois
    Posts
    545
    Tricky, an earthworm could put on one of these inducers if it could lift a nut driver! No, it's not an exact replacement, the originals were junk, the new ones go directly on with no issues. He's not even giving you a Rheem part number on his replacement part. Call someone else. As far as Co goes, not realy an issue here, after the crack in the housing gets bad enough the pressure switch will no longer make and you lose heat.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    North Richland Hills, Texas
    Posts
    14,914
    Like others have said, there is no CO danger. Usually what hapens is enough cracks form that the pressure switch opens, or it cracks around the mounts for the motor, so the blower wheel inside it drags.

    Very simple replacement, the last ones I got looked exactly like the origonal, only they were made of metal. They used to supply one that looked totally different, but hookup and mounting was the same.

    As fare as Rheem/Ruud claiming it is installation related, I call BS on that. Virtually ever composit combustion blower I have seen in a Rheem/Ruud furnace, that was more than about 5 years old, had some signs of cracks.
    If more government is the answer, then it's a really stupid question.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    11
    The model numbers are UGLG-05EAUER
    They are now about 10 years old.

    At the Ruud/Rheem web site, it looks like the model is still alive - differnt by 4th letter - bottom of the line 80% furnance.

    Irascible, your right, I did get sticker shock and since I have two, I got double the fun. I've had two ignitors installed in the last few years and went through a similar shock - it was even more painful since the tech was all thumbs and I had to help, even charged me for diagnoise even though I called and said "replace the ignitor". With that replacement, I got a similar situation where the tech got a ignitor that was suppose to be an "approved" replacement, but it looked different from the orignal.

    The outfit I'm using is the original installers of the HVAC equipment when the house was built. They switched from Ruud to Trane, so now when they service my units they always bad mouth them as being old, on par with Goodman, this wouldn't happen with a Trane, nothing stops a trane, etc. They tell me that the coil will go next.

    Truthly, I like Rheem/Ruud, its the only company where you can get spec sheets (as a home owner) that shows you what the true SEER is for a given combination of furnace, coil and outdoor unit. For Trane and Lennox you only know what its "up to" which makes me wonder just what it takes to get the broucher number

    Thanks

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Concord, CA
    Posts
    2,633
    The diagnosis fee is really a trip fee, which is why I always tell customers that it's "X to come out" and leave the word diagnosis out of it. If it's a diagnosis fee and they don't think I diagnosed then they get silly on me - as if their assistance with the diagnosis somehow made my expenses go down.

    Anyway, I'm sure your real issue was the lack of value in their service. Had they been on the ball you'd of felt different.

    As you no doubt suspect, they're full of fecal matter regarding their observations about brands. Any brand can serve you well. All brands have their ups and downs.

    So is the company that wasn't on the ball about the igniters, who was scared about the inducer and who talks idiocy about brands all the same company? If so it's time to trade up!

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    11
    Yup same company.

    I live in a place of only about 4-5 HVAC companies. We had enough growth here that its probably a good market for those companies. I been having those companies come out and give me bids on new equipment, but I didn't like what I saw (mostly oversizing, a lennox company wanted to give me two 90K furnaces, I have 2 50K right now that are perfect fits - the lennox owner told me that they were 2 stage units and I would only run in the first stage which would be ok - I've read enough posts here to understand that BS, but to his defense, Lennox really doesn't support stuff under 70K. I actually gave Lennox a try after having dealt with a Pulse [RIP]). Last week I just put in a Aprilair 2400 into one of the furances - it didn't have a filter rack - I had been sticking a 1" up into the duct (its a downdraft) - the Aprilaire was installed by a American Standard company - so far so good, I might have them come look at the inducers.

    I wanted to go Rheem/Ruud but the only Rheem dealer left (an 8 man company) kept cancelling the appointment, and then I drove by his shop and it was a complete dump. I figure if the sales guy isn't dependable, then the install is going to be hopeless. Hopefully, new Ruud/Rheem dealers will appear. Also, money doesn't seem to help, the company's that give me bids weren't interested in my offer to pay more for a veteran installer. They also wouldn't agree that the primary installer wouldn't be green - they did say that any work would be reviewed by others, but that didn't make me feel any more confident.


    I don't know how much longer the inducers will hold up, so I'm probably going to go with the repairs - one's just a hair line crack, the other I could probably sqeeze two buisness cards into.

    Also, your approach is good on just stating it as a fee for coming out. I don't have negative impressions of the techs, I actually think it a matter of experience, most of them are very young - just out of high school, which probably is a local pheoneom here. I've read NATE questions, so I know it more than being NATE certified. Its really a matter of experience, skill and maybe god given talent, which probably isn't being properly paid for. I always try to give them support (step ladders, water/coffee/soda, and any info I can to help them get to the problem ASAP).


  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Concord, CA
    Posts
    2,633
    It sounds like you're surrounded by mediocrity. That's unfortunate but typical. Figuring out which contractor is least crappy amongst mediocre choices is less fun than picking the best of amongst skilled tradesmen.

    It's a bit of a tangent. But take a look at this. If the site is still down go here. I chose to work for my last employer for the two years prior to starting my own biz not because he was a top performer. He embodied typical mediocrity. But what he didn't do was engage in that sort of bull. Sometimes if you can't pick a contractor by what they do you can narrow it down by what they don't.

    Good luck.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    11
    I found the part at this link, it looks like the right part (and made of metal). It sure does look simple, maybe his "tricky" statement was the gaskets???

    http://www.arnoldservice.com/rheem_r...t_inducers.htm

    I'm probably just wasteing my time, but I'm going to write a letter to Rheem about these inducers having an engineering defect and see how they respond. They'll probably tell me that age did them in.



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    11
    Irascible
    Thanks for the link, I am a bit worried about my ducts, not for dirt, but for flex pipe going everywhere, no real trunks to speak of. I've got them in the attic and the crawl space. I seem to get ice dams before everyone else, though I don't know if you can really keep an attic cold in the winter when you have a gas furance up there. I have about R39 in insulation, before I go to R45-49, I'm probably going to get someone to run a blower pressure test.

    Oh, last month I thought I had a good solution, my current service company sent me a flier on duct sealing with some sort of spray - it sounded like nothing more that some latex paint applied into the system. Looks like they hook the system up to a laptop computer and watch for the pressure to increase as they applied it.

    So, I figure, "hey this is got to be good, just like fix a flat quick and cheap"....... WRONG! Without breaking a post rule, I was floored. From what I gather, exclusive rights and patent payouts killed it from being practical

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Concord, CA
    Posts
    2,633
    Yep. AeroSeal is for people so rich that you never actually meet them. You deal with their "people".

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