A CUSTOMER'S VIEW - Page 2
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  1. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Tucson AZ
    Posts
    55

    R-401A vs R-22 / Irascible

    "The ONLY thing I like about 410A over 22 is that in some cases its higher density will allow you to run smaller refrigerant lines. And it’s also true that 410A is more finicky about installation procedure." The major difference in the two refrigerants has to do with warranty failures. If R-22 systems are not properly installed (pressure tested, liquid line filter dryers installer and a deep vacuum (500 microns vacuum)) the compressor will likely last thru the warranty period. If R-410a systems are installed without proper procedures they will fail prematurely. This is why Carrier would not sell units to dealers that did not go thru proper training. I don't care what system you decide to use. I do believe you should use the most competent dealer in your area. I would eliminate any dealers that are opposed to doing a manual J-8 load calculation as well as opposed to zoning, either by multiple systems or zone controls. I do believe if this is a long-term investment (I would assume this is so if you are looking at the highest SEER systems available) All I know is in 2010 R-22 units will no longer me manufactured!!!!! I don’t think I would be willing to install a 19-SEER (check the actual SEER rating) system in my home to save $37.00 per year. When the 10-year warranty ends my system will have been obsolete for 5.5-years! Who will be left holding the bag if you have a problem???? I think TRANE will say that unit is no longer being built!!! LOL!!!
    Good luck with what ever you decide to do.
    Look http://www.410a.com for info in regards to refrigerant

  2. #15
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Office and warehouse in both Crystal River & New Port Richey ,FL
    Posts
    18,836
    The idea ,that consumers can actually pick the better contractor,is really silly.


    If you think "brands" mislead consmers,what about contractors,don't most alll think there operation is superior to their competitors/


    Brand can play a major role ,in helping the contractor ,be the best,support warranty down the road,etc,etc.


    IMO ,it's a good combination of brand and dealer,that you should be loooking for.



    Mnost say they can get any brand ,I don't see that as the case in our area.Most that can't get a "major" brand say they are all the same.


    All just my Opinion,so save the Flames.

  3. #16
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Eufaula OK
    Posts
    4,175
    Nathan,, thanks for sharing your experience and your point of view.
    I have no doubt that a little knowledge may turn off some contractors, but not the ones you want to hire.
    I have to agree brand would be last on my list. But you have to make a decision based on what you know and how well you communicate with your contractor.


    “The idea ,that consumers can actually pick the better contractor,is really silly. “




    The Truth is, good contractors are good communicators who are able to answer all your questions and able to provide you with options and a believable explanation of each.

    Zoning is important in some cases, and a waste in others. The refrigerant type makes little difference if installed correctly. VS has a place.

    As far as the heat load. With a room by room load, you know what it takes to heat and cool that exact space. Otherwise it is just a guess.

    Jax

  4. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Office and warehouse in both Crystal River & New Port Richey ,FL
    Posts
    18,836
    I'd don't disagree that good contractors are often good communicaters,but bad ones with persuasive salesman get a lot of jobs.

    Just look at the homeowners coming to this site and the problems with their installs.

    [Edited by dash on 06-05-2005 at 04:35 PM]

  5. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Bakersfield, CA
    Posts
    209
    Thanks again for the responses.

    dash, I'm beginning to agree that finding a "great" contractor" can be quite a challenge. I think my first Trane dealer is well regarded and he has certainly not been scared off by my questions (all of which were prompted by this site).

    Just look at the different views on R-410A that were posted here. I'm still inclined to try to get an R-410A system.

    I have dropped a scroll compressor from my list of must haves, although most R-410A systen will probably have scroll compressors.

    Well, whatever I decide to do I still believe I will get a better system with benefits I understand better than had I never visited this site.

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Office and warehouse in both Crystal River & New Port Richey ,FL
    Posts
    18,836
    Originally posted by nathan9999
    Thanks again for the responses.

    dash, I'm beginning to agree that finding a "great" contractor" can be quite a challenge. I think my first Trane dealer is well regarded and he has certainly not been scared off by my questions (all of which were prompted by this site).

    Just look at the different views on R-410A that were posted here. I'm still inclined to try to get an R-410A system.

    I have dropped a scroll compressor from my list of must haves, although most R-410A systen will probably have scroll compressors.

    Well, whatever I decide to do I still believe I will get a better system with benefits I understand better than had I never visited this site.


    I think you're better off too.Good Luck!

  7. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Bakersfield, CA
    Posts
    209
    Just wanted to share a recent conversation with another HVAC contractor (Carrier and Bryant). He will consider zoning but when I mentioned Manual J he said "it doesn't work here". He says Manual J undersizes for our area. Now our area (Bakersfield, CA) has hot dry summers and mild winters. He uses the 400-425 st ft/ton rule of thumb. He says I need about 7-7.5 tons for my new 3139 sq ft north/south oriented home which has met Title 24 and has 3 small windows on the west side. The architect calls for 6 tons.

    I've now spoken to about 10 local contractors and not one mentions Manual J until you bring it up and then they come up with a reason why it doesn't apply.

    I mention this because getting a Manual J is perhaps the most common recommendation on this site.

    Just thought you all might find this interesting. I'm sure most of you won't be surprised.

  8. #21
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Office and warehouse in both Crystal River & New Port Richey ,FL
    Posts
    18,836
    The ones I've known that swore Man. J undersized,where the same ones that undersized the duct system.


    Which is interesting,in that if you iversize the system and undersize the ducts enough,it will reduce the capacity of the equipment,maybe the same amount you oversized it.

    So I can see why they thought Man. J undersized.

    Since these are the answers you are getting,I'd be concerned about their methods of duct sizing.


    Another reason Man. Jis needed is to determine the correct cfms ,per room,to design the ducts,no way can a per sq. ft. method ever get close for that.

  9. #22
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Concord, CA
    Posts
    2,633

  10. #23
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Bakersfield, CA
    Posts
    209
    The article posted by Irascible is quite useful because the study involved Phoenix and Las Vegas. We also have a hot dry climate, though not as hot.

    So the study indicates Manual J already oversizes. Then our local contractors want to add a safety margin.

    I know one thing. I won't be able to change any local contractor's mind about Manual J. The ones I have talked to have their minds made up.

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