Not an HVAC question...

[ct2]

Is this thread real?
If you are going to "trust" the experts---then call one!

Why would you use alumn wire or want to use it ? copper wire isnt that much more and you wont have any of the other problems associated with alum wire .

If you have to ask questions based on what the experts at hd have told you - you need to get someone that knows what they are doing

[ct2]

Weren't you just asking about a sub panel to a tankless water heater, in another thread?


No that guy is still out looking for a 90 amp breaker and a 10 amp to add later--


Where do they come from?

[wolfdog]

Sorry....a different "noob".

[ct2]

ralphtheplumber
Member

Registered: May 2004
Posts: 88





Tell me why you can buy a gas water heater, but not a gas furnace..
06-04-2005 06:28 AM
IP: Logge

Ralf : have you ever installed a gas furnace? If you have you would understand why . SAFETY

the typical homeowner that runs down to HD on saturday are people that consider themselves "professionals" in whatever line of work they do. If they were allowed to go out and buy a gas furnace-or any type for that matter- and by reading the instructions connected that furnace to their home

How many of them would have it installed in accordance with the building codes that apply in their areas?

The instructions for installation dont always tell you what the code requires for a specific item or why

the instructions may tell you to use b type vent pipe but you local HD doesnt have any -will they know why they shouldnt substitute

and why put a drain on a furnace ? or a trap---

we get questions all the time from people wanting to know where to connect the 240 volt wires to or wanting to know which wires on the transformer to hook the 220 wires to

How would you possibly explain how to properly size a unit?
The hd experts wont know

how would you explain the correct cfm the air handler must deliver or adjusting the motor speed for the correct cfm?

do you think they will understand the cubic ft of gas required for the installation and the building codes for a gas installation? or the type of pipe to run?

The instructions mention Carbon monxide but how many people know to take it seriously? How many can adjust a burner so the flame is correct


A water heater install:

A flex in from the valve
a flex out of the heater
a discharge line to the pressure relieve valve
connect the gas line and the vent


there is a lot more to a furnace install than you may realise

[ralphtheplumber]

Originally posted by ct2
Ralf : have you ever installed a gas furnace? If you have you would understand why . SAFETY

Yes, I have. Thanks for asking.

My point was that most people shouldn't be fornicating with gas appliances at all. You'll be just as dead from co from a furnace, water heater, bbq, or whatever. Also, the gas doesn't care which pipe it leaks out of.. your house will still blow up.

and why put a drain on a furnace ? or a trap---

You think they can figure out a power-vent water heater?

do you think they will understand the cubic ft of gas required for the installation and the building codes for a gas installation? or the type of pipe to run?

Do you think they will for every other kind of gas appliance they can walk into the store and buy? How many big sales on gas logs are we going to see this fall? How many of those people in the checkout line are going to go to sleep and not wake up?

The instructions mention Carbon monxide but how many people know to take it seriously? How many can adjust a burner so the flame is correct

See my previous comment.

A water heater install:

A flex in from the valve
a flex out of the heater
a discharge line to the pressure relieve valve
connect the gas line and the vent

And a lot of bad things can happen in those 4 steps..

there is a lot more to a furnace install than you may realise

I'm starting to think that you may have me confused with somebody else.

Do I need to post copies of my Master Mechanical and Gas Fitter's licenses?

[ct2]

Do I need to post copies of my Master Mechanical and Gas Fitter's licenses


no I didnt read your profile and when you posted the statement "Tell me why you can buy a gas water heater, but not a gas furnace" it sounded kind of like you were suggesting that furnaces should be sold ..

[ralphtheplumber]

it sounded kind of like you were suggesting that furnaces should be sold ..

No problem. I was merely suggesting that they be consistent in what they will and will not allow.

[t-total]

here's another opinion call local electrical supplier (not home depot) ask for 2/3 g vntc 2ga good for 125a 3 conductor and ground sun light resistance and put right on ground . i would put pvc going in ground both ends

[mcr]

Originally posted by btj steamfitter / ref
on a similar note I heard an electrician telling a guy the other day that if you have direct burial cable it needs to be bigger than cable in the air for the same load he said the ground does not allow it to shed heat as fast as the air, at first I though no way but now I'm not so sure lol any electricians out there have an answer to this?

That is correct. Look at a service lateral from a pole to an average home. The wire looks pretty small because of very thin insulation so the air can cool it. A matter of fact it cools so well must laterals are tri-plex wire with both hot leads wound around the bare neutral. Underground wire should be protected in conduit. #2 URD wire sounds about right. Any electrician would quote the job with aluminum wire. Copper is a serious price increase over aluminum. You need to do a load and voltage drop calculation to size the wire. #4 would probably be ok but go 1 step up. You might be glad you did in the future.

[hvac student_4063]

Originally posted by ralphtheplumber

A water heater install:

A flex in from the valve
a flex out of the heater
a discharge line to the pressure relieve valve
connect the gas line and the vent

And a lot of bad things can happen in those 4 steps..

We do service calls for Rheem (who makes those quality GE water heaters that Home Depot sells). You just haven't lived until you've run a few of these calls.

My favorite was the 50 gallon gas water heater that wasn't staying lit. Turns out they had one in there, and the FVIR device tripped (blocked flue). Unfortunately with the Rheem/GE tanks when that FVIR device trips you have to change the entire tank.

Anyway, they change it out, but this time they mash the legs of draft hood down flat on top of the water heater. For some reason, they were suprised when the FVIR safety device tripped again. That's when Rheem called us to check it out. These people weren't very happy when I told them (in a nice way) that their "Plumber" was an idiot, and it was installed improperly and not covered by Rheem.

I can't even count the number of calls where the flue runs downhill or has some other stupid thing on it. Water heaters aren't THAT complicated to install, but some DIY "Plumbers" can sure screw em up!