AccuTools BluVac Micron Gauge

[Pneuma]

I just ordered the bluevac and the appion megaflow kit from Truetech tools. I got the kit without the gauges. Used it on a 10 split system with 120' of 1-5/8" pipe. Worked great, having the big suitcase to keep everything needed for evacuation together is really going to be nice. The bluevac worked great, had me really scratching my head as the reading would pull down and rise up and pull down, finally got it down to 246 microns! Was using a JB 6 cfm pump.

[hearthman]

There is no such thing as "leak free". Everything leaks some--its just a question of how much. Submarines and space shuttles leak some. Your house's water and gas pipes leak some. The question is, what is an acceptable level of leak and under what circumstances?

Check out the attached manual. This might help you understand why some systems seem to hold a charge for years, while others can't hold for minutes. A micron gauge on a pump down is merely one tool to determine if a system is *tight* or not.

Here is another interesting concept about common practice: the pitfalls of high pressure leak testing. let's say you jack up the system with N2 to a couple of hundred psi, right? What is the resolution of your gauge? I mean, to catch a tiny leak, you would have to come back a month later to see if the gauge moved. Now, pump in let's say 10 psi with a 50 psi gauge. Now, you have room to see subtle needle movements. Ok, what about ultra low pressure? You could put in a fraction of an inch water column and, using a maonometer, pick up small leaks rather quickly. You complain that some leaks only occur at higher pressures, right? How about a meter that can detect leaks of the order of about an ounce per year at 150 psi? Check out the Kuhlman bubble testers. These have been the standard for testing labs for years.

What I'm saying is you need an arsenal of tools--not just one. I think you need the most accurate, reliable micron gauge available. You also need very accurate high pressure gauges and thin-film leak detection fluids and an accurate electronic sniffer. Keep in mind you cannot replicate evey condition of use but you can conduct reasonable test conditions that will reveal problems in 95-99% of the time.

HTH,

[BNME8EZ]

So how does it compare to the Inficone Pilot? I have the pilot which seems to work great, seems accurate, but it eats batteries {9v} like crazy. If we get 5 systems vacuumed on a battery we have done good, usually only a couple.

[dunkman]

There is no such thing as "leak free". Everything leaks some--its just a question of how much. Submarines and space shuttles leak some. Your house's water and gas pipes leak some. The question is, what is an acceptable level of leak and under what circumstances?

Check out the attached manual. This might help you understand why some systems seem to hold a charge for years, while others can't hold for minutes. A micron gauge on a pump down is merely one tool to determine if a system is *tight* or not.

Here is another interesting concept about common practice: the pitfalls of high pressure leak testing. let's say you jack up the system with N2 to a couple of hundred psi, right? What is the resolution of your gauge? I mean, to catch a tiny leak, you would have to come back a month later to see if the gauge moved. Now, pump in let's say 10 psi with a 50 psi gauge. Now, you have room to see subtle needle movements. Ok, what about ultra low pressure? You could put in a fraction of an inch water column and, using a maonometer, pick up small leaks rather quickly. You complain that some leaks only occur at higher pressures, right? How about a meter that can detect leaks of the order of about an ounce per year at 150 psi? Check out the Kuhlman bubble testers. These have been the standard for testing labs for years.

What I'm saying is you need an arsenal of tools--not just one. I think you need the most accurate, reliable micron gauge available. You also need very accurate high pressure gauges and thin-film leak detection fluids and an accurate electronic sniffer. Keep in mind you cannot replicate evey condition of use but you can conduct reasonable test conditions that will reveal problems in 95-99% of the time.

HTH,

You bring up a good point on leak testing. Since I got my Digicools this spring, I've been extremely pleased with my leak test results. 100 psi nitro shows the leaks every time, when you have resolution to the 1/10th psi.

[panerai]

Well today I got a blivac ,because my old yj 69075 took a dump.I went to core industries which was down the street, from a job I was at. I was amazed at the accuracy of this little gauge, while I was paying for the gauge JOEYD walked in, and gave me a quick rundown of the operation.Great guy and a great product, if you are looking to buy a great micron gauge, don't waste your money like I did, get the best you won't regret it.

[Texas-Tech]

I'll stick with my YJ

[dennyf]

Just got the BluVac micron gauge (BV) and put it through it’s paces compared to the YJ 69086. I was always bummed that my vacuum pump didn’t seem to pull as low a vacuum as what other peoples, but of course that depends on what you are measuring it with. I wanted a backup vacuum gauge to compare to in case I thought my readings were suspect and in case one failed. I have a robinair 4cfm (10yrs old) and a JB platinum 7cfm (1yr old). Of the course first problem is that the BluVac comes with a SAE male flare (which you can’t connect to anything without another connector….gurrrrrrrrr!) so I used a female to female flare fitting (put Nylog on all connections) connected to a appion core remover tool (CRT). That way I could use the spare port to connect the YJ Vac Gauge. At first the YJ reading were a lot higher than the BV so I removed the Schrader core from the CRT and the valve core depressor on the YJ female quick connector (BluVac hint hint hint…what you should be using) and that got them a lot closer. I connected the CRT directly to the vacuum port on the pump and on my robinair (with old oil from last year) and it pulled 130mics on the BV and 150 on the YJ (by the way I had just cleaned the YJ with alcohol). After warming he pump for about 15 minutes I drained the oil and re-tested. So the robinaire now pulled 18 mic on BV and 63 on YJ (what a difference new oil made!). Oh by the way the robinair took about 5 minutes to get to down to those readings. Next my JB which has old oil (maybe 3 months) pulled 32 mics with the BV and 80 with the YJ. Kind of hate to change oil if it’s doing that good. When the JB was brand new with clean oil it pulled 35mics on the YJ. The JB pulled right down to 35mics on the BV within 20 seconds, of course it’s connected directly to the pump, but the robinair took considerably longer. Which vacuum gauge it right? I don’t know but they are close enough for me to have confidence that they are both working correctly. Only when compared to a know standard could you say which one is the closest, but I at least have two so that I can compare to each other. The BluVac is pretty cool; just wish It had a better way to connect to a male SAE flare as that’s the only ones that I connect to. Oh yeah the BV responds a lot faster than the YJ. At the higher micron readings they were within 50mics or less of each other.

[joeyd]

Thanks for your purchase, dennyf. I hope you enjoy the gauge. Please let us know if you have any questions or problems.

Of the course first problem is that the BluVac comes with a SAE male flare (which you can’t connect to anything without another connector….gurrrrrrrrr!)

Some like male flare, some female. Others like NPT (1/8, 1/4, m, f). There are lots of ways to skin this cat. But, if the connector gets damaged, you must chuck the whole gauge, so I chose the one with the highest reliability.

Only when compared to a know standard could you say which one is the closest, but I at least have two so that I can compare to each other.

Nice thing about the BluVac: it tells you that it is accurate. And if it is not, you can easily re-calibrate it (to factory specs) in the freezer. Try that with your YJ or JB.

[Texas-Tech]

What are u pulling the vac on? Hopefully not just the gauge itself,cuz that is not telling you anything.

[dennyf]

“Some like male flare, some female. Others like NPT (1/8, 1/4, m, f). There are lots of ways to skin this cat. But, if the connector gets damaged, you must chuck the whole gauge, so I chose the one with the highest reliability.”

That’s a good point! I just hate adding another connection that could leak. Maybe TruTech tools could supply a female to female swivel (like the DV-291) so that you don’t have to source another part to use the gauge.

“Nice thing about the BluVac: it tells you that it is accurate. And if it is not, you can easily re-calibrate it (to factory specs) in the freezer. Try that with your YJ or JB.”

Yeah, you’re right you would have to buy a new sensor and enter the calibration coefficient to get it back to factory calibration (it least for a YJ). So I know that you can calibrate the BluVac by putting it in the freezer and allowing it to warm to room temp; so it has a temperature to pressure relationship that you use to calibrate it. My question is that after performing the calibration as per instructions how does the microns displayed compare to a calibrated standard for values under 500 microns? If it is very close I know that I can use the BluVac to determine if my other vacuum gauge is working correctly. By the way I’m impressed with the BluVac you have a great tool. I may just end up with BluVac’s to check my main BluVac. Ha!

[Chuck]

Thanks for your purchase, dennyf. I hope you enjoy the gauge. Please let us know if you have any questions or problems.



Some like male flare, some female. Others like NPT (1/8, 1/4, m, f). There are lots of ways to skin this cat. But, if the connector gets damaged, you must chuck the whole gauge, so I chose the one with the highest reliability.



Nice thing about the BluVac: it tells you that it is accurate. And if it is not, you can easily re-calibrate it (to factory specs) in the freezer. Try that with your YJ or JB.

I just got my Bluvac last week and am very impressed with it so far.

One system I was pulling a vac on was a little 1 ton WSHP. I was just pulling from one port and had the bluvac hooked to the other port. When it got to about 1200 microns the numbers started fluctuating wildly, up and down 30 - 40 microns every 5-7 seconds. Really messed with the leak rate display which I love watching to see how fast or slow it is pulling down or rising.

I shut off a ball valve to the pump and it just kept fluctuating even after waiting a couple minutes. I pulled the Bluvac off the unit and it sloooowwwwly rose to Hi P. It took about half a minute after seeing atmospheric pressure to get to the Hi P reading.

Any idea why it would have done this?

Is that your dog in your avatar Joey? Very nice looking Shepherd! I love German Shepherds, had to put one down a while back and haven't found another one yet.

[joeyd]

I just got my Bluvac last week and am very impressed with it so far.

One system I was pulling a vac on was a little 1 ton WSHP. I was just pulling from one port and had the bluvac hooked to the other port. When it got to about 1200 microns the numbers started fluctuating wildly, up and down 30 - 40 microns every 5-7 seconds. Really messed with the leak rate display which I love watching to see how fast or slow it is pulling down or rising.

I shut off a ball valve to the pump and it just kept fluctuating even after waiting a couple minutes. I pulled the Bluvac off the unit and it sloooowwwwly rose to Hi P. It took about half a minute after seeing atmospheric pressure to get to the Hi P reading.

Any idea why it would have done this?

Is that your dog in your avatar Joey? Very nice looking Shepherd! I love German Shepherds, had to put one down a while back and haven't found another one yet.

Sounds like you had refrigerant, moisture, or dissolved non-condensibles in the oil or walls of your hoses. The BluVac is so fast that it can register the small pressure increases each time a "bubble" (of refer, moisture, or nc gas) pops. Even on "quiet" systems, you can see this by banging the system under vacuum (tap it with a hammer) and causing out-gassing.

The slow rise to HI-P is caused by refrigerant. All TC (thermal conductivity) gauges would likewise be slow under the same conditions. I think you are either not pulling deep enough, or you have lots of dissolved refrigerant in the system. FYI: refrigerant will not damage your BluVac.

Lucas is the best dog ever! He is my third GSD. Trained him up myself from 11 weeks old (he is 5 now). He is a SchH1 (Schutzhund 1). We trialed for SchH2 last year, and got 98/100 in protection, but we failed obedience (long, really funny story). Haven't trialed since.

[neophytes serendipity]

If the gauge is so sensitive, is it a good idea to have a set of "vacuum only" hoses?

[joeyd]

My question is that after performing the calibration as per instructions how does the microns displayed compare to a calibrated standard for values under 500 microns? If it is very close I know that I can use the BluVac to determine if my other vacuum gauge is working correctly. By the way I’m impressed with the BluVac you have a great tool. I may just end up with BluVac’s to check my main BluVac. Ha!

The BluVac accuracy is 5% +/- 5 microns from 0 to 25,000 microns within the -10C to 50C operating temperature range.

These specs are achieved in our factory via the same calibration method as is available to you (i.e. via the freezer).

So, whenever you calibrate your BluVac, you may expect the same accuracy as the day it was shipped to you.

[Chuck]

Sounds like you had refrigerant, moisture, or dissolved non-condensibles in the oil or walls of your hoses. The BluVac is so fast that it can register the small pressure increases each time a "bubble" (of refer, moisture, or nc gas) pops. Even on "quiet" systems, you can see this by banging the system under vacuum (tap it with a hammer) and causing out-gassing.

The slow rise to HI-P is caused by refrigerant. All TC (thermal conductivity) gauges would likewise be slow under the same conditions. I think you are either not pulling deep enough, or you have lots of dissolved refrigerant in the system. FYI: refrigerant will not damage your BluVac.

Lucas is the best dog ever! He is my third GSD. Trained him up myself from 11 weeks old (he is 5 now). He is a SchH1 (Schutzhund 1). We trialed for SchH2 last year, and got 98/100 in protection, but we failed obedience (long, really funny story). Haven't trialed since.

Thanks for the reply.

I see what you're saying, I just find it hard to believe there were enough refrigerant molecules in the gauge at 1,200 microns to make it do that. I had it below 1,500 for about an hour and still fluctuating. It did hold at about 1400 so its fine but I just didn't like the up down stuff.

[itsiceman]

Were 1/4" hoses and shraider cores involved chuckcrj?
It takes a loooong time to pull a vacuum with them.
At any rate you'll see stuff pop off like that cause the gauge reacts so quickly.

[Chuck]

Were 1/4" hoses and shraider cores involved chuckcrj?
It takes a loooong time to pull a vacuum with them.
At any rate you'll see stuff pop off like that cause the gauge reacts so quickly.

3/8 hose with schrader core removed. Yellow jacket black vacuum hose FWIW.

[dennyf]

"What are u pulling the vac on? Hopefully not just the gauge itself,cuz that is not telling you anything. "

It's telling me that my vacuum pump is working and the oil doesn't need to be changed. I also do a test with a 30lb recovery cylinder to see how long my pump takes to 500, 200, 100 etc mics.

[itsiceman]

3/8 hose with schrader core removed. Yellow jacket black vacuum hose FWIW.

Probably moisture in the oil then.
Since using the BV its been taking longer since its a better gauge than I'm used to. I would have never seen stuff like that before unless it was dramatic.

[itsiceman]

Was cleaning in the garage and found a 9V transformer with +/- plug and am just connecting the BV with the pump now.