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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    5
    We are in the early stages of getting quotes for two different scenerio's.

    Scenerio 1- keep 3.5 ton Tempstar split unit (furnace is verticle inside home) and just purchase a new furnace.

    Scenerio 2- replace split system with a 4 ton all in one unit.

    The first contractor is going to bid out both scenerios with a Trane and Rheems but wanted me to do research and see if there is any other brand we wanted quoted.

    I have absolutely no clue where to begin to look to see how the Brands rank ie is Trane #1 seller in US or is it middle of the road??

    Does anyone know a site that ranks the brands or can anyone tell me 4 or 5 name brands that aren't the MOST expensive NOR are the lowest. (looking for middle of the road cost).

    Thanks so much for your help. I may have more questions as the bids proceed.

    Toni

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Concord, CA
    Posts
    2,635
    I'm sure someone will answer your question in due course toni. But if you'll indulge my two cents, you should spend 90% of your "furnace buying energy" on finding a good contractor and 10% on the rest. I'm sure the first guy seemed nice and all. But precious few contractors do everything that they should be doing on a new installation. You may think I'm exaggerating. But in my opinion if a homeowner got 4 bids he'd be lucky to have just one of those bids come from a contractor that was going to design and install the system by the book.

    Focusing on the brand of your furnace would be like worrying whether or not your car will come with Bridgestone or Michelin tires. The car maker is vastly more important that the company supplying the tires. The same goes for your HVAC system. The equipment manufacturer only supplies components. The contractor actually builds it.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    angola indiana
    Posts
    528
    Well said! Now if we can just convince the other kajillion homeowners.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    5
    Thank you. I will start looking for a reputable contractor in my area and start from there. Thank you.

    Toni

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    53
    Well, not only does the quality of the installation obviously make a huge difference, but you also get what you pay for in the long run.

    I would put Trane and Rheem nearly at opposite ends of the spectrum, with brands like Carrier and Lennox closer to Trane while Goodman, Payne and Heil down near Rheem.

    But a lot of these brands are owned by the same manufacturer, which may put out their own units. For example, American Standard owns Trane.

    Of course, each brand has several models and costs can range there too. Don't forget to look into that.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN, USA
    Posts
    34,608
    Everyone has their own opinion on brands. We've sold the 2 you mention (in sister brands) for 15 years. I'd call both premium units. Lately however we've found A-S/Trane a bit less reliable than the Rheem brands. The manufacturer says they are going to put more emphasis on QC in the future. But even the best products will cause grief if not properly sized and installed and the low end will work fine if they are.

    If your current A/C doesn't cause any trouble and isn't at the end of its life, keep it for a while. If you do decide to change it, why go bigger? Bigger is not better.

    http://www.johnmills.net/compare/outdoorunits.htm
    http://www.johnmills.net/compare/compare90.htm

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    5

    thoughts on route to go?

    We have a 1958 house in Arizona. We have a 1997 TempStar 3.5 ton split 75,000 BTU unit. Estimated 10 Seer. (GNJ075M16CI). The original sq. footage was 1610 and we added on to make 1857. Once we added on we could not get any airflow in the added rooms and the rest of the house doesn't seem to be in balance and gets quite warm quickly when the system shuts off. We have had 3 technicians out and have been given 3 different recommendations. Could you give me your opinion as to which one sounds correct.

    All 3 technicians recommend making some changes to the newly added ductwork, taking out the old unused evap system and adding insulation- which we will definately do.

    Tech 1- said ah you need to have at least a 5 ton unit (new split system) to handle the square footage of the home.

    Tech 2 (spent the most time here researching things) said that we definately need a new furnace as the one we have moves 1300cfm's and we need at least 1600cfm's and that the 3.5tons would work fine if we keep the avg temp at 78 for the 112degree average. If we want it lower (my husband likes 73 degrees) then he recommends getting a new 4 ton unit with a 2 system on it.

    Tech 3- says to just do the duct work and insulation as the 3.5 ton system and furnace is fine and it SHOULD help with air flow in our add on but doesn't guarantee how long the furnace will last.

    Any advice/recommendations would be helpful.

    Thank you,
    Toni

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Concord, CA
    Posts
    2,635
    Tech 1 is shooting from the hip. His aim ain't so good. Do a heat load calc and find out for yourself. Hit the bull’s-eye above.

    Tech 2 sounds like he might be on the ball. If you read my link above I eventually talk about a 5 ton load that I cooled perfectly with 4 tons. There's more to it. But if you're in a dry climate then the simple explanation is LOTS of airflow with extremely tight ducts and a fat evaporator coil.

    They may call me nuts. But unless you're going to do a LOT of duct upgrades then put in a furnace with a 5 ton blower. Put in a high efficiency coil that's one-half to one full ton bigger than the AC with a TXV. Upgrade the return to 20 inches. Then upgrade the duct to the rooms that don't get enough and/or put in dampers to force more air towards them (the decision there is best made with an onsite evaluation). Do those things and your 3.5 ton system will scream - I guarantee it.

    I do dry climate AC and it's what I know. I took a miserably hot upstairs office that had a 2.5 ton system and inaccessible ducts. I put in a high efficiency (BIG) three ton coil on it with a four ton furnace blower and one of the ladies now has to wear a coat to work in summer. The air conditioner? The same 2.5 tons as before.

    What's the furnace make and model?

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Coastal Georgia
    Posts
    34,902
    I wouldn't listen to anyone that places a Goodman near a Rheem and a Carrier near a Trane.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Concord, CA
    Posts
    2,635
    http://www.hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthr...threadid=77259

    It looks like you need to do a little thread consolidation.

    Anyway, if your existing furnace does indeed have a 4 ton blower then you can work with it. Whatever route you take you need to get that airflow up and the ducts sealed.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    SW FL
    Posts
    6,429

    Lightbulb Mfg and Contractors

    Originally posted by toniv
    The original sq. footage was 1610 and we added on to make 1857.

    .. we need at least 1600 cfm's and that the 3.5 tons would work fine if we keep the avg temp at 78 for the 112 degree average. If we want it lower (my husband likes 73 degrees) then he recommends getting a new 4 ton unit with a 2 system on it.

    Lennox and TRANE will serve you well for a Longer time than most other manufacturers.

    I would look at TRANE 4TTX 6048 / 4TEE3F 065E as a BASE a
    and make just two or three other comparisons.

    Also, inquire about 10 year Parts & Labor Warranty $ ____

    http://www.trane.com/Residential/Pro...ableSpeed.aspx

    http://www.trane.com/Residential/Pro...ers/XL16i.aspx

    http://www.lennox.com/products/list.asp?type=1

    http://www.lennox.com/products/overview.asp?model=HSX16

    Maintaining < 77'F with a 3.5 Ton system ( depending on amount/type of glass + orientation ) is quite suspect for AZ as your local tech has already advised.

    You may wish to add tinting on the West side windows.
    Designer Dan
    It's Not Rocket Science, But It is SCIENCE with "Some Art". ___ ___ K EEP I T S IMPLE & S INCERE

    Define the Building Envelope and Perform a Detailed Load Calc: It's ALL About Windows and Make-up Air Requirements. Know Your Equipment Capabilities

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    53
    Originally posted by James 3528
    I wouldn't listen to anyone that places a Goodman near a Rheem and a Carrier near a Trane.
    I may be a newbie with only 5 years under my belt, but one thing I know is that I'm pulling dead 8 year old goodman's out on a dialy basis and have yet to retro fit a Carrier. Whatever. To each their own.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Houston,Tx.
    Posts
    16,122
    Here is a few more you might want to check out some are no longer in business but here is a list this should keep you busy for a while.





    AAON:.

    ADDISON PRODUCTS
    AIRE-FLO
    AIRQUEST:
    AMANA:
    AMERICAN FURNACE [AFCO.
    AMERICAN-STANDARD:
    ARCO:
    ARKLA:
    ARMSTRONG
    BARD:
    BOHN:
    BRYANT:
    CARRIER:
    CENTURY:
    CLIMATEMASTER:
    COLEMAN
    COMFORTAIRE:
    COMFORTMAKER:
    COMMAND-AIRE:
    CONSOLIDATED
    COOLERATOR, McGRAW-EDISON:
    CRANE
    CUMBERLAND:
    DAIKIN US
    DAY & NIGHTDELCO
    DUCANE
    DUNHAM-BUSH:.

    DUOMATIC-OLSEN: ELECTRIC-FURNACE-MAN:
    EUBANK:
    FANDAIRE

    FRASER-JOHNSTON
    FEDDERS:
    FRIEDRICH:
    FRIGIDAIRE:
    GAFFERS & SATTLER:
    GENERAL ELECTRIC:
    GREEN COLONIAL:
    HALL-NEAL FURNACE:
    HASTINGS
    HEIL-QUAKER:
    HENRY FURNACE [MONCRIEF]:
    HOME FURNACE:
    INTERNATIONAL COMFORT PRODUCTSINTERNATIONAL HEATER
    INTERNATIONAL OIL BURNER:
    INTERTHERM
    IRON FIREMAN: ITT:
    JANITROL:
    JOHNSON, AIR-EASE:
    LENNOX
    LUXAIRE:
    MAGIC CHEF:
    MAYFLOWER:
    MAYTAG:
    McQUAY:
    MILLER:
    MITCHELL:
    MONCRIEF:
    MUELLER CLIMATROL.

    NATIONAL U.S. RADIATOR (Capitolaire):
    NESBITT: NIAGRA:
    OLSEN:
    ONEIDA-ROYAL:
    PAYNE: PEERLESS
    PEERLESS HEATER:
    PERFECTION:
    RHEEM:
    ROUND OAK:
    RUUD:
    RYBOLT:

    SILENT AUTOMATIC:
    SINGER:
    McQuay
    SOUTHWEST MFG:
    SPACE CONDITIONER:
    SQUARE D:
    STEWART-WARNER:
    TAPPAN:
    TEMPSTAR:
    THERMOPRODUCTS:
    TRANE:
    TORRIDHEET:
    WATERBURY:
    WATERFURNACE:
    WEATHERKING:
    WESTINGHOUSE:.

    WHIRLPOOL
    WILLIAMS OIL-O-MATIC
    WILLIAMSON:
    WORTHINGTON:
    YORK:

    __________________________________________________ _______________________
    “Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards". - Vernon Law

    "Never let success go to your head, and never let failure go to your heart". - Unknown

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