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  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    22

    Confused

    I have a dual-zone system with two Bryant 561CJ030-E outside condensers. I recently had them moved approximately 20 ft. for landscaping. The electrical and lines were not moved, just extended from where they originally entered the house. Since the move....no cooling!

    The technician who moved them is stumped as to the problem. His guages show that both units are properly charged, or at least under proper pressure. When either system is turned on, the larger cooper tube (approx.3/4")becomes "white" with frost, but no cooling in the house. The attic unit goes on and the fan blows, but air is only room temperature.

    When the units were moved, the coolant was pumped into the condenser tanks, then the lines were cut and extensions were spliced and brazed. To my knowledge, the lines were not evacuated, but I am told very few technicians go to that effort, and I have no idea if air in the lines could be causing this problem?

    It is the same with either zone and either unit. All was well before they were moved. Any ideas as to the prolem that I could pass on to my HVAC guy would be appreciated.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    475
    Originally posted by dvcavall
    To my knowledge, the lines were not evacuated, but I am told very few technicians go to that effort
    What nitwit told you this ?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Kenilworth New Jersey
    Posts
    230

    This is a no brainer

    Same work ,Same problem , 2 Units, Same Tech, Stumped? Same mistake twice!!!!

    Hardly anyone goes thru the trouble of evac? BS! Is he licensed to purchase the additional refrigerant needed for the extra length of pipe? I am thinking No.
    No brainer part = Extra pipe = extra volume = extra juice. Assuming the extra 20` both ways(big pipe and small pipe)did`nt warrant a change in pipe size.

    John

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    22
    I am only guessing here ..but your reply seems to imply that if the lines were not evacuated before the charge from the condensers were released back into the system...that doing so could be causing the problem? In such a case..would you expect reduced cooling...or no cooling at all which is what I am currently experiencing?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    22
    He is a licensed contractor, and I researched his license and found no complaints...however, I think he only recently went out on his own. I know he has had the R22 tank out there..so I can only assume he used it. On his second trip, as when he completed the job he checked the charge on both using his guages, and said both were right on. The small tube looks like a 1/4". The fact that the larger tube gets cold and forms frost when operating seems puzzling to me, but I am just a homeowner, and have no idea what might happen in the system that would cause what appears to be coolant circulation w/o and cooling of the air exiting the registers in the house? I don't want to hang the guy yet..but it has been hot (in Valencia area oif So Cal) and he doesn't seem to know what the problem is. Part of me says that perhaps he knows, but wants to avoid the cost and trouble of evacuating and recharging both systems which I am under the impression is costly?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    WEST CENTRAL FLORIDA
    Posts
    70
    Dear Dave C.

    go shut both units down and call a reputable a/c contractor, give him the full story and take your lumps!
    Your system is full of non condensables(air). This will
    affect cooling and the life of your units. Any tech will take the time to evacuate new line sets, your a/c guy is a full blown hack!
    DO IT ONCE, DO IT RIGHT!

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    3,400
    Call somebody else.

    Your current contractor lacks basic skills, or he's lazy.

    If you think recovery, evacuation & recharge is expensive, just wait until you get the bill for the new compressors.

    There are no shortcuts to doing it right.

    If the system was not processed properly, it will not last as long, nor will it operate properly.

    I'm sure the landscaping is lovely.



  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    22
    Thank you kbtech for your reply. Ouch. Why me? !!! Ok I feel better. I will suggest to my present guy that the knowledgeable folks on this forum suggested that w/o evacuation of the new line sets, the non-condensable air is causing the problem, and that the system should be evacuated and recharged? If he does not do it, guess I will look for someone else, and perhaps be this guys first complaint? I'd like to at least give him a chance to make it right.

    I know we can't ask "how much it costs" questions, but can you tell me, would evacuating and recharging the system be a small, medium or large cost? Unless it is a large cost, not certain why he would not want to do it?

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Suppy NC
    Posts
    4,517
    bwal2
    is 100 oercent right
    if this guy did not evacuate the unit and just opened the valve it is not going to work. call someone esle and have it redone right be fore you wind up in a world of hurt by getting new units. this guy either does not know what he is doing or isnt will to admit he screwed up. either way you comfort isnt his top priority
    just for the record we do amd must evacuate a system before putting it on line

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Fort Worth, TX
    Posts
    11,376
    Can anyone say r-e-s-t-r-i-c-t-i-o-n?

    Two in a row?

    Seems unlikely, but at the same time I'm wonderin' how noncondensables can cause frosting of the suction line. Moisture, maybe, freezing up in the metering device, but noncondensables? That's gonna raise head pressure, increasing pressure across MD, increasing mass flow rate through evap, increasing boiling point of refrigerant.

    Or a kinked lineset...twice.

    Or a hacksaw was used to cut the lines and the ensuing trash made its way to the metering device. Twice.

    Liquid line drier installed on both line sets? Hmmm...

    Evac'd to 500 microns? Ya gotta wonder...
    • Electricity makes refrigeration happen.
    • Refrigeration makes the HVAC psychrometric process happen.
    • HVAC pyschrometrics is what makes indoor human comfort happen...IF the ducts AND the building envelope cooperate.


    A building is NOT beautiful unless it is also comfortable.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Southold.calm
    Posts
    6,369

    Frown

    Make this guy come back and learn by HIS mistakes. That’s the price he pays for cutting corners in the first place.
    1) Recover all refrigerant in the system.
    2) Replace liquid line drier (I bet no one does that either.)
    3) Pressure test unit with nitrogen to 150 PSIG make sure it holds.
    4) Pull Vacuum to 500+ microns
    5) Recharge with new R-22 Total charge is listed on the name plate plus extra for total line length. (See owner’s manual)

    He cut the corners not you. Make him DO IT RIGHT


  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    3,400
    Originally posted by pecmsg
    Make this guy come back and learn by HIS mistakes...

    Well said, pec.

    A beneficial side effect is that while he's learning on the job, he won't be messing up the one down the street.
    Or the widow's across town.

    I'm sure he's a fine fellow, just dumber than dirt.

    Hold his feet to the fire.
    Make him earn his wages.

    Maybe next time, he WON'T be the cheapest bidder, because he will have to take the time to do it right.

    I wonder if he owns a vacuum pump?

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Maine
    Posts
    483
    Originally posted by dvcavall
    I have a dual-zone system with two Bryant 561CJ030-E outside condensers. I recently had them moved approximately 20 ft. for landscaping. The electrical and lines were not moved, just extended from where they originally entered the house. Since the move....no cooling!

    The technician who moved them is stumped as to the problem. His guages show that both units are properly charged, or at least under proper pressure. When either system is turned on, the larger cooper tube (approx.3/4")becomes "white" with frost, but no cooling in the house. The attic unit goes on and the fan blows, but air is only room temperature.

    When the units were moved, the coolant was pumped into the condenser tanks, then the lines were cut and extensions were spliced and brazed. To my knowledge, the lines were not evacuated, but I am told very few technicians go to that effort, and I have no idea if air in the lines could be causing this problem?

    It is the same with either zone and either unit. All was well before they were moved. Any ideas as to the prolem that I could pass on to my HVAC guy would be appreciated.
    If it worked before and it doesn't work after he moved it, he messed up big time. Even if non-condensibles weren't the problem with no cooling now, they will be in the near future. It is a MUST that any system or line open to the air MUST be evacuated. If the problem is in fact non-condensibles I would make him fix it on his dime, he's the one who cut corners, now he needs to pay for it

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