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  1. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    1,722
    Originally posted by gbfromsd
    how you gonna join copper and steel?

    You can refer to this chart...

    http://www.jwharris.com/jwref/chart/

    "Copper or brass to steel or stainless"
    Get back to work.™

  2. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    333
    to square2round,

    Thanks for the reference chart link. To be honest I have done a ton of soldering with copper and brass. Both for plumbing and boiler heat. For Refer, the only residential and lite-com applications I have ever encountered were copper, brass and some aluminum. 99% of this work was with oxy-acet. And the work always turned out great so far. I don't see myself ever have to work with steel or stainless. Believe it or not I'm in good shape and don't mind the exercise of toting the torch kit and nitro tank. Same with the Micron gage and changing vac pump oil religiously. Too many of my co-workers cut these steps short. Have gotten into a safe and patient routine.
    meanwhile, back at the ranch.....

  3. #16
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    1,722
    No problem. It was referred to me on here not long ago. Very useful information throughout the whole site.

    My boss and I refer to your signature constantly. Where's the next installment...Naked Gun 4 ¼.

    I think that's where it's from.

    [Edited by square2round on 05-30-2005 at 01:42 PM]
    Get back to work.™

  4. #17
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    3,157
    how you gonna join copper and steel?

    had an hvac instructor tell me to use epoxy

  5. #18
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Concord, CA
    Posts
    2,635
    Originally posted by docholiday
    The biggest problem I have is the flux. Soft solder can be a strong joint too but the acid scares me.
    The acid is a valid concern. But personally I'd rather have that than the ash. Nitrogen helps. But I've seen ash form on the inside of lines even when nitrogen was being purged. Given the proclivities of most installers, I'd rather the filter/drier have to deal with a little acid than the metering device have to deal with a lot of ash.

    Of course StayBrite 8 works best only on clean tight fittings. Anyone so locked into one method that they exclude another is short sighted. I use either one depending on the application.

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Nevada
    Posts
    1,815
    Originally posted by bittan
    I am the only guy at our company that uses oxy/acet to braze. And always use nitrogen. Everyone else thinks I'm the oddman (oddball) out. They have blind faith that soldering is just as good. I'm used to tubing benders to avoid fittings, in fact never used them on new installs. Many of my service calls are our "call-backs" and find LOTS of soldered fittings; poorly operating systems and more leaks than I could have ever expected. Not to sound tacky, but my old HVAC instructor would say "solder is for plumbers", it has its place but not in refrigeration. Every employee has a turbotorch. I refuse to solder refrig systems. The shame is our company sells TOP-OF-THE-LINE equipment. When it works poorly or fails, they simply blame the manufacturer. Please give me your comments.....I don't want to think their practices are the norm.
    Don't change! I do the same as you and have replaced several soldered joints too. A turbo torch is O.K. but is slower up on a tall roof it is easier on the back though.
    Quote
    “Engineers like to solve problems. If there are no problems handily available, they will create their own." Scott Adams

    "We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
    Albert Einstein

  7. #20
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    108
    I work with a oxy/acet set up that way I can regulate the heat needed for the most part but when I go into an attic I take my mapp turbo torch.

    When I run line sets I use just heat to melt copper first pinch vapor line off and weld tight the seam with no filler then add pressure and pinch off and weld tight and check with soap.

    Outdoor units I use a oxy/acet setup cant beat the heat and time it takes I also use a cold wet rag no paste.

  8. #21
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Concord, CA
    Posts
    2,635
    Originally posted by hvacbear
    Don't change!
    Famous last words? Those who give bittan the deer in the headlights look are no less myopic than those who can't see the value of refrigeration grade solder. Both have valid uses. Both will outperform the other depending on the application.

  9. #22
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Nevada
    Posts
    1,815
    Originally posted by Irascible
    Originally posted by hvacbear
    Don't change!
    Famous last words? Those who give bittan the deer in the headlights look are no less myopic than those who can't see the value of refrigeration grade solder. Both have valid uses. Both will outperform the other depending on the application.
    You are right.

    Solder will out leak sil-phos any day.
    Quote
    “Engineers like to solve problems. If there are no problems handily available, they will create their own." Scott Adams

    "We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
    Albert Einstein

  10. #23
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Concord, CA
    Posts
    2,635
    Solder may. StayBrite 8 won't. I know it's confusing. But corporations invest big money into research and development. We've had all sorts of new fangled technology pop up since the Kelvinator. One of them is StayBrite 8. So put down the halide torch, hop into the Studebaker and head on down to the general store and pick some up. I think you'll like it.

  11. #24
    most of the brazing i do is with sil-flos 15

    of course, i got my start with solder...like a bike, can't forget how to do it, and it'll burn the hell out of ya...

    oh wait, that's not a bike.

  12. #25
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    VA
    Posts
    296

    Health Risk

    Unfortunately brazing exposes one to an extremely toxic agent (cadmium), which is a component of brazing flux. There is no way around this, therefore please be certain to work in a highly ventilated area. Avoid brazing in confined space that allows the buildup of this airborne agent. OSHA states that Primary control should focus on inhalation… Below is an excerpt from their cautions on Cadmium.

    “The most serious consequence of chronic cadmium poisoning is cancer (lung and prostate). The first observed chronic effect is generally kidney damage, manifested by excretion of excessive (low molecular weight) protein in the urine. Cadmium also is believed to cause pulmonary emphysema and bone disease (osteomalcia and osteoporosis).”

    For more information please visit: http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/cadmium/

    Please do not disregard this cautionary information, the danger is real and those who braze are directly in harms way.

    Take care, Faith, hope and charity…

  13. #26
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    333
    To Faith and others-

    Appreciate the info on possible health risks. I've got to think we all are aware of them. Soldering, brazing, etc. I also agree with the other guys that using the correct solder, flux and prep is OK. Unfortunately I have seen monkeys use wrong solder on potable water lines. Some guys don't care. Everytime I get feedback from this site it makes me think. Then I research some more. Most of the threads I read here have been helpful and accurate. Unlike at work, where I'm surrounded by too many close-minded loudmouths; they criticize what they are unfamiliar with.
    meanwhile, back at the ranch.....

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