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  1. #27
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Maine
    Posts
    483
    Originally posted by nyrfan
    I think the problem here is not that people here (Like myself) so much want to save money but feel they can do it themselves without error and learn for the future. Plus if your anything like me as most men are you want it now not have to wait for someone to come do it!

    For instance I bought my TStat at Lowes, right on the box it states something to the effect of "easy installation", and tech support available. Well while changing my TStat I noticed it was not as easy as stated on the box but did get it done eventually without incident. If I would have gotten stuck or blown something up, oh well lesson learned and I would have called a professional.

    I really have a problem with people that are so fast to criticize someone for trying to do things themselves and then asking for help / advice either during the installation or after the installation has went bad. I'm a computer tech and see this all the time and while I agree I would not give out all my secrets I would not stoop to the point where I start bashing the person as being cheap or frugal for trying to attempt to do it himself. These products and many other sold in stores do not recommend having it professionally installed, it actually geared for consumer install. So just remember that before you start bashing people Im sure ALL of you HVAC techs have asked for help at some point during your life and Im sure were not instantly made to feel like youre a cheap, unqualified person.

    Sorry about your install, with that said Im really not quite sure how you can expect your warranty company to pick up the tab. You broke it trying to DIY and now you should be 100% responsible for the repairs. Remember in the future if you want to DIY be prepared and understand that in the end it might have just be smarter to have it professionally done in the 1st place. Ive leaned this the hard way and will never attempt anything pluming again, EVER!!!

    Felix
    Nobody is bashing anyone here. I personally do not have a problem with DIY'ers installing t-stats etc. But when they install the wrong type of stat or wire it up wrong because they don't even read the directions, well bad and expensive things can happen to their systems. Some DIY'ers know their limitations, others do not. Some manufacturers will void the warranty outright if an unqualified person messes with it. I have done DIY repairs on things other than HVAC, I wouldn't even consider trying to get warranty service after I botched something. There is a reason why this is not a DIY site, and most of that is due to liability. If I tell a homeowner how to fix something online and they mess up and burn their house down, I would be liable. If someone dies as a result I could be held criminally liable. Every system is unique and without actually being their we would be making a guesse at the problem. That's not the way to troubleshoot. Go take a look at some of the wall of shame photos on this site. Some of these are homeowner installs, most of these are downright scary. So without bashing anyone I recommend that if you don't know how to fix something then call someone who does. None of the proffessionals on this site are going to give step by step advice, it is against the sites rules that everyone agreed to when they became members here.

  2. #28
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Richmond
    Posts
    480
    Just another example of what happens when you DONT read an install manual. I read mine for almost 30 mins and labled the wires and carefully removed the old t-stat. No problems what so ever. I do have 1 confession to make: I changed that T-stat when I was 13! Oh and I do kinda feel sorry for waht happend to you.

  3. #29
    Originally posted by nyrfan
    I think the problem here is not that people here (Like myself) so much want to save money but feel they can do it themselves without error and learn for the future. Plus if your anything like me as most men are you want it now not have to wait for someone to come do it!

    For instance I bought my TStat at Lowes, right on the box it states something to the effect of "easy installation", and tech support available. Well while changing my TStat I noticed it was not as easy as stated on the box but did get it done eventually without incident. If I would have gotten stuck or blown something up, oh well lesson learned and I would have called a professional.

    I really have a problem with people that are so fast to criticize someone for trying to do things themselves and then asking for help / advice either during the installation or after the installation has went bad. I'm a computer tech and see this all the time and while I agree I would not give out all my secrets I would not stoop to the point where I start bashing the person as being cheap or frugal for trying to attempt to do it himself. These products and many other sold in stores do not recommend having it professionally installed, it actually geared for consumer install. So just remember that before you start bashing people Im sure ALL of you HVAC techs have asked for help at some point during your life and Im sure were not instantly made to feel like youre a cheap, unqualified person.

    Sorry about your install, with that said Im really not quite sure how you can expect your warranty company to pick up the tab. You broke it trying to DIY and now you should be 100% responsible for the repairs. Remember in the future if you want to DIY be prepared and understand that in the end it might have just be smarter to have it professionally done in the 1st place.
    Felix





    This is an interesting post but it's also very revealing.
    You indicate that it's important to know your limitations.
    I can tell you with a large degree of certainty that an install manual is not enough. Period.
    Experience, proper training and applied techniques are.
    Otherwise, it's dangerous, foolhardy and expensive regardless of how much aptitude and ability we may think we posess.

    Many of the people in our trade do not consider people consumers but rather customers. We want to help and develop long lasting service relationships with them so we can help them stay comfy, safe, toasty and cool.
    It's a professional thing. We take pride in it.

    No offense, but if you're a computer tech, stick to it.
    If you want to take on other chores, your assesment is a good one...be prepared to screw up and be prepared to be razzed when you do.

  4. #30
    Senior Tech Guest

    Smile

    Originally posted by crash11
    Copperx,

    I'm sure you noticed after the 2nd or 3rd reply that these people here are above normal humans. They, unlike you or I, have a HVAC certification. If I'm reincarnated I hope I can have the enormous amount of talent it takes to be a HVAC guy.

    FINALLY! Someone that recognizes us for what we truly are!

    Now, that only took 2 or 3 replies. I see there has been a few more than that telling you the same thing over and over. I'm sure by now you're asking yourself "Why did I even bother?" I'll tell you why.... because you actually needed help. Who better to ask for help about something HVAC related than HVAC contractors, right? Wrong. These guys don't help you, not for free anyway.

    AND he even recognizes that we actually do this to make money...rocket science isn't as hard as we all thought it was!

    I hope I gave you more useful information in this seemingly useless post than all of the replies thus far.

  5. #31
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    7
    Originally posted by stevehvac
    Originally posted by crash11
    Copperx,

    I'm sure you noticed after the 2nd or 3rd reply that these people here are above normal humans. They, unlike you or I, have a HVAC certification. If I'm reincarnated I hope I can have the enormous amount of talent it takes to be a HVAC guy.

    Now, that only took 2 or 3 replies. I see there has been a few more than that telling you the same thing over and over. I'm sure by now you're asking yourself "Why did I even bother?" I'll tell you why.... because you actually needed help. Who better to ask for help about something HVAC related than HVAC contractors, right? Wrong. These guys don't help you, not for free anyway.

    I hope I gave you more useful information in this seemingly useless post than all of the replies thus far.
    Why does everyone who comes here think this is a "help me repair my unit site"? I am not paid by this site. We do not work here. We are posters just like you. What are you offering? Why arent you "helping"?

    Why dont you find a medical site and see if you can a the posters there to tell you how to fix a broken arm or remove your wisdom teeth. Guess what you'll find.....

    " I see there has been a few more than that telling you the same thing over and over. I'm sure by now you're asking yourself "Why did I even bother?" I'll tell you why.... because you actually needed help. Who better to ask for help about something Medical related than Medical Professionals, right? Wrong. These guys don't help you, not for free anyway. "

    I am just waiting to hear how your a single mom with 4 kids living in a house thats 100 degrees as thats usually the next step in getting over the internet step by step repair advice.
    actually http://www.webmd.com does give a lot of great information that you don't have to pay for!

  6. #32
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Posts
    715
    Copperex
    Don't let these post's get to you. You just tried to do something to YOUR house and it got messed up. WE have ALL done that at some time or the other. Yea DIY havac repair can be dangerous, but so can a DIY brake job gone bad on the old ford. Just don't expect a warranty to bail you out now! In reading your original post I would guess that you burned a transformer, but whatever the problem you are going to need the help of a pro now. Call a service company, that you or your neighbors or friends have had good results with in the past. Tell the technician EXACTLY what you did and pay the bill when the repair is complete.

    [Edited by Wirenut on 08-11-2005 at 07:05 PM]

  7. #33
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    43

    Exclamation Home Depot Slogan: You can do it, we can help

    Home Depot World: I have to confess that I installed my thermostats myself too. And I am lucky that my HVAC still works. It was definitely not as easy as Home Depot makes it out to be: open cover, label wires, disconnect wires, reconnect wires, the end. I had to go to the appendix section of the manual and even the manual's website for my system setup. The only reason I did it myself was because Home Depot said I could, and because all my friends say it was so easy. Honeywell even sells a line of thermostats for DIYs. In short, so many people make it seem like you're dumb if you don't know how to install a thermostat, including government websites. Another thing that Home Depot pushes, is pleated filters, making it seem like the higher the pleat count, the better the filter...

    [Edited by univmd on 08-11-2005 at 11:07 AM]

  8. #34
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    64
    I guess I'm struggling to understand why people here are talking about swapping a t-stat as being a complicated or dangerous thing...

    I swapped my T-stat because it was making a new call for cool when the temp was already at the setpoint, or cancelling the call for cool 3 or 4 deg before the setpoint was reached. It was also showing the room temp rising by 3 degrees and then dropping again within 30 seconds - obviously the temp sensor was bad.

    Here's what I did... (this is not advice - I am not qualified to give advice)

    1) Turned old t-stat to off and wait for the system to shut down
    2) Turned off breakers for inside blower/evap unit and outside condenser
    3) Removed old t-stat and compare wiring colors with the letters on the tstat connections. I checked that the new t-stat had connections with the same letters.
    4) Labelled the wires with the letters from teh t-stat connections
    5) Removed t-stat completely and installed new t-stat matching the letters on the connections
    6) P:rogrammed the t-stat and checked that it called for cool (lcd said "cool") Also checked it called for heat in heat mode.
    7) Turned the t-stat to off
    8) Turned the breakers for the condenser and blower back on
    9) Switched the t-stat to cool, watched the call for cool.
    10) Checked that the blower and condenser were both running.

    As a homeowner with no hvac training I didn't consider this to be a risky operation as long as you do it right following the instructions. My A/C knowledge comes from automotive A/C systems, so I know the basic concept of how vapor-compression refrigeration systems work. I don't believe I need to take a half-day off work and pay someone $100 to do this.

    Although I have no HVAC training I DO have training in electronics etc and I repair desktop, laptops computer as well as $20-30k servers as my day job, so I fully understand how components can become damaged if you hook them up wrong...

  9. #35
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    32

    "3) Removed old t-stat and compare wiring colors with the letters on the tstat connections. I checked that the new t-stat had connections with the same letters."

    On most heat pump systems, the letters on the old t-stat will not match the new stat. I guess stat manufacturers include conversion charts, but they can't cover every possible combination, especially for older systems. You really need to understand what each terminal and wire is doing.

    Sure, changing a stat on a 2-wire furnace or 4-wire furnace/AC is easy, but heat pumps can be a very different story. It used to be DIY stores would not sell stats for heat pumps because of the differences in terminal designations and wiring colors, not to mention the many possible options that would have to set on the stat. If a DIYer thinks that you just have to match the letters or colors, you can really get into trouble.


  10. #36
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    171
    Hey, HVAC contractors, EVERYONE needs to look in the mirror. Quote from shophound: 'I guess you could say I'm the home warranty, since I fix everything unless I know it's out of my realm, such as roofing, foundation repair, etc....I would be tempted to lobby for thermostats to be relegated to wholesale only...'

    So are you professionally qualified to do 'everything', i.e. do you do all those other things for a living? If not, according to your own opinion, you are just a HO doing things you shouldn't be doing. Should faucets and copper pipe be sold only to licensed plumbers?

    I will bet you dollars to donuts that every HVAC guy here has done non-hvac work on his house. Get off your high horses and stop ranting. It's a free country and HOs are allowed to screw up whatever they want at their own peril and expense.

  11. #37
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan, Canada Occupation:Interprovincial Plumber, Commercial Gasfitter Interests:
    Posts
    2,412
    Originally posted by dx
    Should faucets and copper pipe be sold only to licensed plumbers?

    It's a free country and HOs are allowed to screw up whatever they want at their own peril and expense.
    Actually, it's not a "free" country. There are rules and regulations to be followed. The problem is, when somebody, HO or Pro, screws up, it is possible to kill someone else in the process.

    As for plumbing,people do die,and our liabilities are increasing.
    http://www.backflowpreventiontechzone.com/

    What most people don't realize that every code is a response to a safety problem.

    I love my job, but paydays Thursday

  12. #38
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    in a house, Appomattox, Va.
    Posts
    3,255
    Or like they say in the Navy- every rule is written in blood.
    Col 3:23


    questions asked, answers received, ignorance abated

  13. #39
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    171
    Rich, what's your point? Yes, we have rules and regulations. This guy didn't break any. Is it against code in your municipality for a HO to put in the wrong thermostat and cause damage?

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