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  1. #40
    Originally posted by dvcavall
    Genius I tell you...genius!!!! With a special hats off to HPJ, Beenthere and shophound.

    Did the test suggested by Beenthere, here is what happened. Both electrical boxes (where they ewit the house) and the condensers are labled (1) and (2). At this point, I can only assume that (1) is the first floor and (2) is the second floor. Let's hope that part was right.

    When I turn both on together..eureka, all is well, condensr fans turn, cold air flows, no icing just a bit of condensation on both lines...all is well.

    However, when I turn the first floor off...condenser (2) stops running and the suction line to condenser (1) which is still spinning begins to ice after 4 minutes of so!

    Based on what I think you have told me (?), that means that the stat (electrical) lines are crossed, but the coolant lines are not???? Do I have this right????


    Sounds like a much easier fix if that is it!

    When the Tech tested the system we had both running together which explains why all was well with pressures and cooling.


    thanks, but i still remember what i was told a long time ago - "a pat on the back is only about 18 inches from a swift kick in the a$$"

  2. #41
    i kinda wish you would have found this place before too.

    there are PLENTY of things, from your own description, that were either done:

    a: wrong
    b: "half-assed"
    c: in a hurry
    d: all of the above

    you have a few things you still need resolved with the install, if in fact the systems weren't properly evacuated, or done at all for that matter.

    i think the answer is "d" by the way. lol

  3. #42
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
    Posts
    68,120
    It sounds like your stat wire, presuming he marked the outdoor units correctly. For 1 being first floor and 2 second.

    When you call your guy back to rewire them, and double check that he piped them right, ask him if he took out the old filter driers, and put in new ones, this should have been done along with pulling a vacuum on the systems before recharging.

    If it turns out that they're piped wrong, insist that he put in new filter driers, and pull a proper vacuum,

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  4. #43
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    22
    Thank beenthere and to all the rest of you. I "faxed" him the test I did and your suggested steps on identifying and resolving the problem today. I will make certain that he indicates that a vacuum was pulled and that new line driers (whatever they are - assume they remove moisture and contaminants) were installed. After all that, I think I may still call out the original installer and have them purge and evac and recharge both systems again. May cost me three bills, but from what you folks have indicated, may be cheap money in the long run to avoid bigger problems down the road.

    By the way, just in case you care lol, I was all set to go with the original installation company, but when I was ready to pull the trigger, they sent out a different kid for the final estimate that couldn't do simple math, literally, and even though he called the office to calculate the figures, when I measured on my own (I had the cost breakdown), his "deal" was overcharging me by close to three bills. I am certain they have good installers since this major home builder used them, but that hasty and inaccurate number just soured me to the point where I went looking elsewhere. Sometimes..you just can't win!

  5. #44
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
    Posts
    68,120
    LOL...

    I know that can't win for losing feeling.

    Take care, and update us when your systems are done.
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  6. #45

    Thumbs down Good Luck ...

    Just got tired reading this thread and decided to put in my two cents worth.

    You need to lose this contractor before he does you any further damage.

    Just goes to show you crammign and studying to pass a contractor examine doesn't make you a service man... This gy has some serious skill issues and hsould no tbe doing this on his own. He shuld hire an experienced journeman to teach him the business if he has no formal eduaction in it!

    Walk away and count your loss before you wind up really screwed!

    AllTemp Heating & Cooling

  7. #46
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    San Luis Obispo County, CA
    Posts
    215
    Originally posted by dvcavall
    I have a dual-zone system with two Bryant 561CJ030-E outside condensers. I recently had them moved approximately 20 ft. for landscaping. The electrical and lines were not moved, just extended from where they originally entered the house. Since the move....no cooling!

    The technician who moved them is stumped as to the problem. His guages show that both units are properly charged, or at least under proper pressure. When either system is turned on, the larger cooper tube (approx.3/4")becomes "white" with frost, but no cooling in the house. The attic unit goes on and the fan blows, but air is only room temperature.

    When the units were moved, the coolant was pumped into the condenser tanks, then the lines were cut and extensions were spliced and brazed. To my knowledge, the lines were not evacuated, but I am told very few technicians go to that effort, and I have no idea if air in the lines could be causing this problem?

    It is the same with either zone and either unit. All was well before they were moved. Any ideas as to the prolem that I could pass on to my HVAC guy would be appreciated.
    Ok, the lines are frosted... But what REALLY frosts MY butt is that the guy didn't stay till he found and fixed the problem.

    Something work... then you "work" on it... then it doesn't work... Well, it has been my experiance that 99.9% of the time it is because something went wrong with the "work".. that is, the work that was done. Now, if he had checked everything about this job, he could have found the problem easily. This was just basic troubleshooting, plus having the added advantage of knowing that the problem was probably directly related to the work that was done.

    If this had been my job, I wouldn't have been able to sleep at night until I knew what was wrong. I would have been there the next morning, and stayed until I had an answer...

    But maybe that's just me... I got into the trades so that I could FIX things... not break them. If its broke after I work on it, that to me is a personal attack... a problem that reflects on my charecter and ability.

    How say you all?

  8. #47
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    3,157
    heatpumpjesus

    crossed line sets ?

    I would really like to offer an apoligy to you for giving credit to someone other than you for the answer to this mans problem. I dont know why I failed to notice that you mentioned it first, but I sure did and for that I am sorry .

    Beenthere and Shophound are usually known for this kind of brilliance around here . Just seeing his response about the linesets impressed me so much that I just didnt read everything very carefully.
    again I am sorry for making that error, I hope I didnt offend you

  9. #48
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    3,157
    How deep are the lines underground ? is the suction line insulated? If the refrigerant temp drops and begins to flash to liquid entering the compressor it will damage the compressor internally

    How correct is this statement regarding buried linesets?
    I would think that 16 inches would be deep enough to cause a drop in temps that would result in flashing liquid


    even in the L.A. area

  10. #49
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
    Posts
    68,120
    Its not just that the vapor could condense to liquid while running on milder temp days,"if the buried section is too long" but that on off cycles the liquid will migrate to the buried lines, and could slug the compressor on start up.

    There was along thread on this maybe 9 monthes to ayear ago.



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  11. #50
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Maine
    Posts
    483
    [/B][/QUOTE]
    Ok, the lines are frosted... But what REALLY frosts MY butt is that the guy didn't stay till he found and fixed the problem.

    Something work... then you "work" on it... then it doesn't work... Well, it has been my experiance that 99.9% of the time it is because something went wrong with the "work".. that is, the work that was done. Now, if he had checked everything about this job, he could have found the problem easily. This was just basic troubleshooting, plus having the added advantage of knowing that the problem was probably directly related to the work that was done.

    If this had been my job, I wouldn't have been able to sleep at night until I knew what was wrong. I would have been there the next morning, and stayed until I had an answer...

    But maybe that's just me... I got into the trades so that I could FIX things... not break them. If its broke after I work on it, that to me is a personal attack... a problem that reflects on my charecter and ability.

    How say you all? [/B][/QUOTE]

    I agree 100%. In fact I find these types of troubleshooting problems to be very rewarding. I would never leave a unit that didn't work due to something I did or didn't do.

  12. #51
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    3,157
    I would never leave a unit that didn't work due to something I did or didn't do.

    I would have a very difficult time asking the customer for payment on something I fouled up so badly---at least untill it was working correctly

  13. #52
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    22
    Here is the end to this saga...

    After faxing the zone test results and your suggested possible cause and fix, this guy finally came out yesterday and reversed the stat wires. That seemed to be it! Both units work properly, independently or together. Only took your help and over 30 days since I wrote the check!

    I ASKED ABOUT THE LIQUID LINE DRIERS AND THE FACT THAT I DIDN'T OBSERVE ANY VACUUM USED ON THE LINES...HERE IS WHAT HE SAID...

    He said that since the entire system is less only 12 mos. old and only used for one summer, they didn't need changing. As far as the vacuum...you guys will love this...he said "although illegal", he purges the lines with coolant which does the same thing and is how it was done before EPA concerns. He assures me there are no noncondensables in the system.

    Well, since this guy obviously likes to "cut corners", I am going to take the advice of all here and get a reputable company out to capture, vacuum and recharge, and change the liguid line driers just to be on the safe side.

    I can't thank all of you enough for getting this monkey off of my back. I was thinking about being the contractor for the work I now want to get done in the yard, but this experience has soured me to that possibility..and decided to just pay a professional contractor who has probably learned the hard way on who to use and not use.

    Thanks once again to everyone who read and contributed!!! You guys are great. Hope your customers appreciate how professional you all are!


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