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  1. #14
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    22
    Thank you all for your help and plain talk. I will, shall we say, extract the pertinent thoughts on the problem, and hope it helps this guy do the right thing. I did call another company (the same company the builder used in the first place) to get a ball-park on getting them to fix the problem. Guess I am learning my lesson on low bidders! Not that this guy was inexpensive. The orginal contractor did seem to indicate that (or at least I interpreted his explanation to say)there is some common point at the heating and blower unit in the attic where debris could clog the system, which they would check in addition to the recovery and recharge. I think he mentioned the drier as well, but not certain if that was what he was referring to?

    What a headache!
    Thank you all once again.

  2. #15
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Dixie
    Posts
    1,344
    live and learn......hope it works out for you

  3. #16
    crossed line sets ?

  4. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
    Posts
    66,755
    Originally posted by heatpumpjesus
    crossed line sets ?
    Dang, I read to slow.

    And as the others said, he feed you a line about no one pulling vacuums.
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    How many times must one fix something before it is fixed?

  5. #18
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Fort Worth, TX
    Posts
    11,086
    Originally posted by heatpumpjesus
    crossed line sets ?
    Good call, HPJ. That could very well be it.
    • Electricity makes refrigeration happen.
    • Refrigeration makes the HVAC psychrometric process happen.
    • HVAC pyschrometrics is what makes indoor human comfort happen...IF the ducts AND the building envelope cooperate.


    A building is NOT beautiful unless it is also comfortable.

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Chicago, IL
    Posts
    4,188
    Originally posted by dvcavall
    I know we can't ask "how much it costs" questions, but can you tell me, would evacuating and recharging the system be a small, medium or large cost? Unless it is a large cost, not certain why he would not want to do it?
    if the lineset is empty of refrigerant, (as yours was before he let the r-22 back into the lines), evacuating the system costs nothing but time. the pump is simply hooked to the system and plugged in. The pump is hooked to the system and plugged in untill a proper vacuum level is pulled.

    However, assuming he did not pull a vacuum, the system is now contaminated. the refrigerant must be recovered and properly disposed of, the filter- drier replaced, and the system recharged with new refrigerant. this could reach into the medium to high cost for doing two systems. YOU should not pay. if he can't fix it, he should pay the bill to have a qualified company do the job.

  7. #20
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    428
    you know that had entered my mind also about having the line sets crossed. i would love to hear the conclusion to this . let us know.

  8. #21
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    22
    I will post what the final "fix" and problem was...assuming I am told when I ask. :-) I will mention the cross line sets as well. Thanks everyone.... Hope this isn't unresolved a month from now!


  9. #22
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
    Posts
    66,755
    You can find out if the line sets, or even just the low voltage wiring is crossed.

    Go to the stats, and turn both units off.

    Then turn one back on, does the right outdorr unit come on with the indoor.

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  10. #23
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Suppy NC
    Posts
    4,509
    best way to tell crossed line sets is run both systems at the same time if they dont ice up. turn one off if it ices up there you go. was a little quick and didnt consider restriction. could be all the above. this guy as nice as he may seem screwed up and should be the one to fix the problem if he can but i think your best bet is have someone esle do the repair and give him the bill
    anyone that does not evacuate and gives out a line like that needs to learn the hard way. next time maybe he will do it right
    good luck and let us know

  11. #24
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Grapevine, Texas
    Posts
    82
    I agree with shop owner that noncondensibles wont cause the frosting of the suction line but will cause high head.How long does the systems run before they start to ice up? I dont think he is being honest when he says the pressures are good. I have never seen a system frost the suction line when the pressures were "good". I.E. above 60 lbs. suction side. I guess both orfices could be stopped up but that would result in low suction pressures and high head.
    Me:here's your invoice. The total is $$.. Customer:Oh would you check...while your here?

  12. #25
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Vancouver Canada
    Posts
    996
    I would bet on either crossed line sets or mixed up Tstat wiring. Check the lineset at the airhandler which is running and then check the lineset at the AH that is not running, you should be able to tell fairly easily which one has refrigerant flowing through it. As for non condensables, I don't know how much of a role they actually play in killing your A/C. Had a boss about 20 years ago who would always just blow and go, now evac at all and most of the equip. is still running and cooling today. Taught me everything I needed to know that Boss did. I spent the next 20 years trying to forget what I learned and learn to do it the right way. Now it is always nitrogen purge, evac. and then open the valves. Won't have a manufacturer denying a failed comp. on the grounds of no purge and evac.

  13. #26
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    22
    Jerry,
    Are you saying that in a properly running system, the suction line should not frost up? I am guessing that it takes no more than 10 minutes before they turn white. Heck, I was thinking it was a good thing! there was a post that suggested that if both are turned on together, then the frost shouldn't form, even if the lines are crossed, but if they are crossed, when one is turned off, frost would form on one or the other? Did I read that right? Can anyone else comment? Guess I could just "dig up" the lines and physically trace the wires and tubes? Since the homeowner (me) was responsible for digging the trench and then filling it in, I am not overly anxious to do that.

    FYI..I did pull a "permit" and the inspector came out and looked at the install (from a distance I might add), but since the conduit and pipe were in corregated tubing, guess it wouldn't have been obvious if tube A was going to Condenser B. Would digging up the thing answer the "cross line" question? If yes, guess I'll get my shovel back out.

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