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  1. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    1,209
    I agree with shophound. Need to take indoor ambient,indoor wetbulb,delta across indoor coil, outdoor ambient,pressures, subcooling and superheat, and compressor amps. Also indoor and outdoor model and serial #s. Just one question more,"Does system use a TXV or piston metering device. Most R410 systems use TXV.

    [Edited by topdog on 05-25-2005 at 08:57 PM]

  2. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    27
    Topdog, system has TXV.

  3. #16
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    3,157
    The inside cover of the manual you should have recieved with your unit should have( some do and some dont) a page for the installing tech to complete that includes temps - pressures-
    SH- Sub cooling- WB -DB-DT-everything about your unit at the time it was installed.

    Some people actually take the time to complete those pages , some dont, but with the info on that page, it will tell a tech everything he needs to know

  4. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    27
    Well these HVAC guys came on thursday May 26. They recovered the old R410a from sysytem and into an empty container. Then they installed a 2nd filter-drier next to TXV in the attic. Then they purged the system with Nitrogen in the vapor line then liqiuid line. After that system was pressurized it for 15 minutes. HVAC guy flashed it multiple times with 410 through the liquid line. Then he started charging the system!!! I asked why they did not pull vac, tech says they did not want 410 contaminating the vac pump they use on r22. Instead he says he displaced the air in the system by flashing system with refrigerant 410 prior to charging. Is this acceptable practice? These guys dont even have a micron gauge. But I have to work with them because of the warranty.
    Then as the guy was charging he ran out of refrigerant. So they were coming back on Saturday May 28.

    On Friday, I spoke to the manager, and reported above practice. Manager said his tech could have pulled vac, but then changed the vac pump oil later. I told the manager that thay need to redo the procedure again, because now new 410 in system is probably contaminated again. Manger said he will send someone on Saturday to recover, purge, pull vac, replace bothe filter-drier and recharge system on Sat.

    Yesterday, Saturday. These HVAC guys came and said they knew nothing of redoing the procedure and replacing filter-drier. But they have all the equip except enough 410a. Because I needed AC running today, Sunday they would charge the system with enough refrigerant to run. Well they did just that and once charged the condenser shutoff. They restarted multiple times and found the head pressure would rise and vapor side would fall. They said that TXV is probably bummed out and need replacement. WIll return this week to change it, and recover, pull vac, install new filter driers 2 of them and recharge system. Right now condenser is completely off.

  5. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    340
    Originally posted by kdawg
    These HVAC guys came and said they knew nothing of redoing the procedure and replacing filter-drier. But they have all the equip except enough 410a. Because I needed AC running today, Sunday they would charge the system with enough refrigerant to run. Well they did just that and once charged the condenser shutoff. They restarted multiple times and found the head pressure would rise and vapor side would fall. They said that TXV is probably bummed out and need replacement. WIll return this week to change it, and recover, pull vac, install new filter driers 2 of them and recharge system. Right now condenser is completely off.
    This is ridiculous. If it were me, I'd call the owner of the shop at home immediately, and tell him to get some qualified technicians out to my house. And I'd tell him specifically I didn't want the ill-trained and ill-prepared guys that were just there.

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    AZ
    Posts
    191
    To me that is just completely unacceptable. I too would be on the phone and not to happy. I would tell them you want the best tech (question if that means anything) and all temps and pressures documented.

  7. #20
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Suppy NC
    Posts
    4,513
    first place you should not have two filter dryers on the system. they need to remove both of them since they are comtaminated and install only one. the filter dryer has to be rated for 410a or it will not hold up. i would be on the phone with the owner finding out what he plans to do about this lack of knowlege and the poor service you have been getting. there is no axcuse for this to be happening. 410-a or r-22 the pratice is the same there for there is a proper way to install a unit and it makes no differance witch type of refrigerant it uses

  8. #21
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Fort Worth, TX
    Posts
    11,302
    The range of lameness seems to have no bounds.

    What...those guys never heard of changing the vac pump oil after an evac? Boss don't want to spend money on vac oil? Tech doesn't care much about the longivity of his tools?

    Gotta wonder how the EPA would take the news of someone sweeping lines with 410A. Still falls under same recovery regs as 22, last time I checked.

    And I'm really wondering which direction the arrow on that additional liquid line drier near the TXV is pointing. Did they flow nitrogen through the lines while brazing or only afterward? If afterward, they could've easily blown some trash into the TXV, being that they did brazing work close to the valve.

    I keep hearing 410A systems are less forgiving than 22 to poor installation and service procedures. Ideally one could hope that would be the death blow to all hacks, but in reality it could only end up giving the trade even more of a black eye as bungling boobs like this crew appears to be fails to get the training and knowledge they need to make these systems sing.
    • Electricity makes refrigeration happen.
    • Refrigeration makes the HVAC psychrometric process happen.
    • HVAC pyschrometrics is what makes indoor human comfort happen...IF the ducts AND the building envelope cooperate.


    A building is NOT beautiful unless it is also comfortable.

  9. #22
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    27
    This company came highly recommended by neighbors and friends. I am thoroughly dissatisfied. I even asked the manager and crew what do they do to other homeowners wgo do not know this is happening?

  10. #23
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    9

    410 A

    poor man you don`t have to go trough all this mess.
    if i was you i would ask for someone who is certified in 410A http://epatest.comor from NATE.and putting more them one filter wont solve the case ,they should do a trip evac because maybe they made it worse now and if the TXV is clogged it`s made because of the mess they made ,it will be good if you can remember the difference of pressures before and what it is after they tried to fix it ,and if you have time you can find some answers about 410a in this link: http://www.qwik.com/R410A/R410A_manual.html

    please keep us posted

    i hope everything works fine

  11. #24
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    340
    Originally posted by kdawg
    This company came highly recommended by neighbors and friends.
    It may be that the company is fine, and that you just happened to get a couple of their ....less qualified technicians. I've seen that happen a time or two. I have always believed that it isn't just problems that occur, it is the way that any problems are handled that makes for a good company, and for satisfied customers.

    You should ask to speak with the owner of the company (hopefully you are working with a local shop). Point him or her to this thread and give them a chance to respond and make it right.

  12. #25
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Gold Coast of Connecticut
    Posts
    4,572
    What a mess, i hope they get some one out who will fix it correctly for you!
    Aire Serv of SW Connecticut- Gas heat, dual fuel and central a/c systems installed and serviced

  13. #26
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    27
    How do I make sure my tech is certified for 410a, is there a liscence I can look for? By the way the techs that have out to my house have been the field supervisor, and foreman of the company. This is a large company with an average install of 9-11 complete systems a day when I checked.

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