Line set - R22/Puron

[curious1]

If changing from r22 to puron, is a line set change out advised? Does Carrier recommend changing the line set or just purging the r22 lines?
Thanks.

[t527ed]

i would never reuse line set for r-410a, risk is way to high of mineral oil left behind fouling things up.

[billva]

go with a new line set.

you will never completly clean the old by flushing.

[atufano]

Originally posted by curious1
If changing from r22 to puron, is a line set change out advised? Does Carrier recommend changing the line set or just purging the r22 lines?
Thanks.

I agree with t527ed. Since R22 uses mineral oil and puron (R-410A) uses Polyolester oil. These two kiddies should not mix, and trying to flush out the old lines and test to see if you get it all out, you're better off replacing the lineset and for the cost, it's worth just spending a few more dollars then the cleaning kits. You wouldn't change your brake rotors and use the old pads would you?

[curious1]

If changing the line set, can it be fished through the wall along the same path as the old one? What are the options for changing it if not? Or I guess the question is what is the recommended way of changing out the line set?
Thanks.

[atufano]

Originally posted by curious1
If changing the line set, can it be fished through the wall along the same path as the old one? What are the options for changing it if not? Or I guess the question is what is the recommended way of changing out the line set?
Thanks.

Chances are you'll have a hell of a time fishing the lineset. If it's 7/8X3/8 then forget it, you'll rip off that closed cell insulation let alone forcing it somewhere it doesn't want to go. Or atleast that how I feel running a *NEW* lineset in a rough in.
You can goto your supply house and they should have several options for you. Where are you going to and from?
There are the plastic type enclosures that run down the home in different colors, there's the rain gutter look, or if you want, you can peek over to wall of shame and see how it shouldn't look. Always a learning experiance when someone else screws it up.

[curious1]

Thanks for the responses and advice.

The lines are going from a service yard to the attic to service the second floor system being replaced. The house has crawl space, but I don'y know if there are any spaces between walls that be ammenable to running the lines.

I want things done the right way, so will have the lineset changed. Concerned about the cosmetics of changing it.

Thanks again.

[atufano]

Originally posted by curious1
Thanks for the responses and advice.

The lines are going from a service yard to the attic to service the second floor system being replaced. The house has crawl space, but I don'y know if there are any spaces between walls that be ammenable to running the lines.

I want things done the right way, so will have the lineset changed. Concerned about the cosmetics of changing it.

Thanks again.

How old is the house? Sometimes there are wall chases, chimney chases, old dumbwaiters or service chases where you might be able to fit a lineset in. If you can not get the lineset in without damaging it you may need to call a pro. Leave the responsibility of screwing something up to them.

[curious1]

I fully intend to have a pro do this, but so far the ones I have talked to have never mentioned changing the lineset. They were going to use the existing and purge it.
There is a chimney or at least the space in the wall for the flue (pipe) that runs up to the roof. The house is 12 years old.

Thanks.

[t527ed]

if lines cannot be run thru interior space we run them up the outside. split the back out of downspout and cover the lines. looks good

[ct2]

What is the exterior of the home made of ? If it is a shetted home you can remove the sheeting , The downspout Idea is a good one

[tpa-fl]

Just wondering, what's a condo dweller to do when they stop making R-22 systems and pulling a new lineset would involve cutting into the walls of 9 or more neighbors?

[dnt]

Automotive from R12 to r134a conversions have always gotten by with just a flush to remove the remaining mineral oil, The remaining mineral oil if any is said not to bother the PAG or Ester oil or R134a so why would it bother the puron? Perhaps the puron reacts chemically with the mineral oil?? Puron appears to be 410a which is a R32+R125 blend if so it is in fact a HFC same as R134a (Hydrofluorocarbons) and R134a will not mix with mineral oil so there should be no reaction, but of course if the manufacturer will not warrant the installation unless lines are replaced you would be wise to follow their advice in case of a warranty claim the chemical analysis would reveal the presence of mineral oil and you could be turned down. Just thinking out loud here a bit I guess, I would probably flush the lines thoroughly and reuse or pick out a nice R22 system for the replacement. Why even use the puron system is there a big rebate or something??
originall posted by atufano
["You wouldn't change your brake rotors and use the old pads would you?"]
If the pads (line sets) were in good shape and replacing them involved cutting open say the frame rails and welding them back up after replacement (for comparison sake here to tearing out house walls/ceilings and then repairing to replace line sets) and replacing the pads (line sets) would cost more in labor than the car (house) is worth, I would definitley reuse the old pads (line sets) or go back with a rotor (AC system) that would work with the old pads (line sets) LOL

[hvac r us 2]

Re using the old line set typically doesn’t hurt anything as long as the pipe diameters are correct.

Line sets have not changed since the introduction of 410-A.

Of course the right approach is to change the line set but sometimes it is just not practical. If the line set is flushed, the appropriate size and pressure tested I don’t see the problem.

Mineral oil uses Chlorine to attatch itself to the refrigerant (410-A does not). The Cholrine provides the attraction for Mineral oil to return back to the compressor.

Since there is no Chlorine in 410-A there is nothing for the oil to adhere to. The oil (mineral) tends to get pumped into the evaporator and coats the inside of the coil, thus providing bad transfer.

Mixing oils doesn’t hurt the machine but creates capacity loss due to bad heat transfer.

Typically you can mix up to about 5% of oil before exhibiting any issues.

So if you replace the indoor coil, the lines have no traps (or storage of oil) and flush the lines I cant see how you would contaminate the oil enough to experience capacity loss.

Just my two cents…

[dash]

hvac r us2 ,is correct ,we have installed a lot of Puron/R410a changeouts,if they are sized correctly,flush them ,it will work just fine.

[HVAC Pro]

Most manufacturers, Lennox I'm sure of, has specific guidelines in the installation instructions outlining the proper procedure for flushing existing lines for reuse with R410a equipment.