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  1. #40
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Posts
    49
    Quote Originally Posted by mfry View Post
    If you really want to excel in the refrigeration field, don't you think you should now how to do it? And, if you do know how, why wouldn't you?

    You don't need to guess, if you know what you're doing. And, no I don't crank the customer.

    I have only used the scale 2 times in my whole career of 24 years.

    It's like looking at a map when you already know where your going...
    Working in a company that services several fractional refrigeration systems daily, it has become very important to use a scale. A tech in 1 hour can diagnosis between a low charge (leak), restricted cap tube, or a weak compressor.
    The first thing he does is add nitro to the system, if it holds, no leak, step 2, evacuate and weight in charge. If unit still shows signs of low charge there is a restricted cap tube. Especially when you almost double the weighed in amount just to get your suction pressure up.

  2. #41
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Glendale, CA.
    Posts
    16
    If you're not keeping track of how much refrigerant you're using and recovering than you're what they call an in-efficient technician. That's no good... if you're going to waste your refrigerant by all means, go right ahead. Just remember that you're only cheating yourself, not me!

  3. #42
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Yuma, AZ
    Posts
    2,361
    Quote Originally Posted by coolwhip View Post
    I use a 40 year old fish scale.
    Not so funny. Back in the good old days, that was about the best thing going.
    Dial a Charge came next for 10 or 20 years.
    Finally we got electronic scales.

    When I started, service vacuum pumps did not exist.
    I could go on, and on, and on.
    It has been a real trip.
    "I have never let my schooling interfere with my education."
    Mark Twain
    More at: http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/education/

  4. #43
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    LEHIGH VALLEY, PA
    Posts
    166
    i to in my younger days used touch as taught by my boss n mentor to charge systems , how ever did get caught out with bigger 1hp n 1.5 hp systems for cold n freezer rooms on capilary , we had a lots of probs blocked capilarys on 404a, so the scales were the best and by far the quickest way to diagnose and charge right , when you start using scales you get to like the speed and accuracy ,

  5. #44
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    CO
    Posts
    15
    Quote Originally Posted by mfry View Post
    I'm not breaking any EPA rules. What I have purchased is what I have used. And the customer gets an invoice.
    You actually are breaking the EPA regulations. Having gone through the audit process (not a whole lot of fun by the way....), they require you to keep track of not only how much total refrigerant you use, but where it all goes and into what piece of equipment, to the ounce. The only way to keep track of this accurately is by using a scale.

    And back on topic, yes, the most accurate and quickest way that I've found to charge a fractional system is to weigh in to the factory specs and then use superheat/subcooling to double check operation and make sure that everything is working properly and efficiently.

  6. #45
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Yuma, AZ
    Posts
    2,361
    Only on large systems.
    Quote Originally Posted by matts57 View Post
    You actually are breaking the EPA regulations.
    See http://www.epa.gov/ozone/title6/608/608fact.html

    "Major Recordkeeping Requirements
    Technicians
    servicing appliances that contain 50 or more pounds of refrigerant must provide the owner with an invoice that indicates the amount of refrigerant added to the appliance.

    Technicians
    must also keep a copy of their proof of certification at their place of business.
    Owners or Operators
    of appliances that contain 50 or more pounds of refrigerant must keep servicing records documenting the date and type of service, as well as the quantity of refrigerant added.Wholesalerswho sell CFC and HCFC refrigerants must retain invoices that indicate the name of the purchaser, the date of sale, and the quantity of refrigerant purchased."
    "I have never let my schooling interfere with my education."
    Mark Twain
    More at: http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/education/

  7. #46
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    1,295
    With 2 posts how does one obtain pro-membership?

  8. #47
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Chicago, IL
    Posts
    4,567
    Quote Originally Posted by ZeroTolerance View Post
    With 2 posts how does one obtain pro-membership?
    Bribing the membership committee?

  9. #48
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Danbury Ct 1/2 hour from NYC
    Posts
    204
    Quote Originally Posted by matts57 View Post
    You actually are breaking the EPA regulations. Having gone through the audit process (not a whole lot of fun by the way....), they require you to keep track of not only how much total refrigerant you use, but where it all goes and into what piece of equipment, to the ounce. The only way to keep track of this accurately is by using a scale.

    And back on topic, yes, the most accurate and quickest way that I've found to charge a fractional system is to weigh in to the factory specs and then use superheat/subcooling to double check operation and make sure that everything is working properly and efficiently.
    I agree I never used to weigh in my 22 units but you have to have a scale no matter what or you don't know what to properly bill. Not to mention some manufacturers only give you weight charts according to your lineset length. Some people are to cheap to buy the proper tools and instruments and they shoot from the hip. How can you bill a customer for a charge up if you don't know how much refirg you put into the system?

  10. #49
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Danbury Ct 1/2 hour from NYC
    Posts
    204
    Quote Originally Posted by croake View Post
    always use scale when charging a captube system,ice machine,packgage unit......when system has a sight glass never, just weigh the tank after charging and then write with sharpie on tank the remaining amount, i do this to properly charge the customer for gas used on job.....................mfry curious as to why its time to learn not to??? been doing this for 28 years, and weighing in gas has never failed me yet......followed lots of "hacks" after their great skills were applied to machines and found lots of problems. most of them were one man shops!!
    I don't know what size the shop has to do with it don't take working your whole life for a big company and just getting by on the small outfits. I worked for big shops where guys could care less about the company name because it's not theirs, but anyway I wanted to make some real money and also so I can do things the right way like weighing in my charge if the manufacturers call for it a lot of the times its the big shops that are HACKS because the cheap ass boss won't buy everyone the proper tools but he'll send them to do any type of call and to do start ups and then I would go behind one of my fellow co workers and fix all their mess up's. A lot of these big shop owners would rather do it twice instead of nice!!!

  11. #50
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Nova-Scotia, Canada
    Posts
    275
    Quote Originally Posted by bwalley View Post
    There is no way you can know how much refrigerant you put in a system without weighing it or using a dial a charge.

    There is new technology that comes out evry year, just because you never used it doesn't mean it isn't a good idea to do it.
    I usually just grab the pipes and feel my superheat and subcooling.

    On a serious note.

    Any non critically charged refrigeration piece I use the sight glass. AC equipment you need to charge correctly and I use a scale whenever I'm billing a customer.

  12. #51
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    6,804
    Quote Originally Posted by ZeroTolerance View Post
    With 2 posts how does one obtain pro-membership?
    I believe it has to do with the date he or she became a member. Or they are that good.

  13. #52
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Western PA
    Posts
    25,930
    Quote Originally Posted by VTP99 View Post
    I believe it has to do with the date he or she became a member. Or they are that good.
    That's pretty close to accurate.

    At one time, this was a free-for-all site. All one had to do was claim to be a pro and Voila! They were.

    Things are different, now, but rather than have all of those who claimed to be pro's provide proof, they were grandfathered in.

    I believe there was a recent 'purge' of members who have not logged in or posted in a long time. This should have effectively eliminated most, if not all, non-pros with pro status.

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