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  1. #235
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Southeastern Pa
    Posts
    16,995
    Quote Originally Posted by prounionelp View Post
    I'll use Albuquerque for the example. C-Card is $21.09 & B-Card is $23.20, LNAS can afford to pay either one of those equivalents to its techs. The Union Local fringes are approximately $10/hr. LNAS may be around $5/hr for its fringes. So we'll say LNAS in Albuquerque tech cost is $28.20. LNAS bids out peanuts for its "PMs". So it's not the techs' fault for low margins!

    I see now.

    I think that Co's who bid their PM's on a low margin hope to "make it up" with quoted and approved repairs as a result of those PM visits. This brings up my previous observation about NAS, that being: once you have installed new units on a client's roof, there is nothing else to do during those PM visits. That forces you to always be in site acquisition mode, leaving a scorched earth of wary clients and new equipment in your wake, and making increasingly unrealistic promises to the new clients. This approach "gets around" in the industry, and eventually, with many other choices for the same services with a better business model (First, Comfort, USM, CLS, Smart, etc) the NAS model will soon implode.
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

    RSES CMS, HVAC Electrical Specialist

    AOP Forum Rules:







  2. #236
    Quote Originally Posted by hvacpope View Post
    Benner, MetroTech, Lennox Nas are the "burger King" version of HVAC, they bid work low, make money on parts and cheap labor, hire mostly inexperience techs, pay them as little as they can, only managements counts, "techs" are disposable, managers get pay base salaries plus bonus, the extra $$$ depends on how hard they drive you to do more with less, to them we are just a number literally.
    That type of "business model was confined to the residential market, them 3 outfits plus some more are trying really hard to screw the commercial side of the trade.
    Agree

  3. #237
    You know I've been on this site almost daily (unregistered) for the past few years gaining knowledge and sometimes even laughing about how idiotic some you crybabys sound. Oh Lennox undersells their PM, oh CMS has some party that you have to make money to be in. I fully understand not every company is going to be for everybody. Some guys like residential, some like chillers and yes even some like retail. What I don't understand is how your negative experience leads you to believe nobody should ever work for one of these companies. Man up and say it wasn't for me. You can state the reasons why but every tech is not you, so bashing a company without actual proof is way out of line. As far as I know every body is in business to make money and as far as I know companies don't stay around long if they're robbing the customers or changing parts that don't need to be changed. I am pretty sure the retail sector would spread the word at the PRSM meetings about who was screwing who. As you know everybody ends up undercutting everybody in retail. If Target has a widget for $6 Walmart will sell it for $5.50. Well I think the same thing happens with these big HVAC companies in the retail sector. And as far as pay goes you don't have to have a $40 per hour tech with 30 years exp. working on a 5 ton RTU. Do you? Maybe that's why their scale is low. I do know a couple of guys working at the big one that is making $34 an hour so maybe it what he's worth, IDK.
    I interview with one residential company several years ago and they wanted to give me $11 per hour and 20% of the ticket price. I feel like this is more of a rip off company than these guys that pay an average of $22 an hour for some 5 ton rooftop work. Oh well, I said my peace that has built up for years and I hope it urges some of you to think about the comment because there are guys with a couple of years in the field that read this board and might find retail works for them to get their feet wet and jump up to the big dogs like all of you and make $50 per hour with full paid medical and benefits. Oh and on a side note there must be a reason companies like Benner and CAS and the other one that recently was purchased had to close up and sell but these guys are still running strong.
    Be well my brothers.

  4. #238
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Southeastern Pa
    Posts
    16,995
    Quote Originally Posted by Tranes4you View Post
    You know I've been on this site almost daily (unregistered) for the past few years gaining knowledge and sometimes even laughing about how idiotic some you crybabys sound. Oh Lennox undersells their PM, oh CMS has some party that you have to make money to be in. I fully understand not every company is going to be for everybody. Some guys like residential, some like chillers and yes even some like retail. What I don't understand is how your negative experience leads you to believe nobody should ever work for one of these companies. Man up and say it wasn't for me. You can state the reasons why but every tech is not you, so bashing a company without actual proof is way out of line. As far as I know every body is in business to make money and as far as I know companies don't stay around long if they're robbing the customers or changing parts that don't need to be changed. I am pretty sure the retail sector would spread the word at the PRSM meetings about who was screwing who. As you know everybody ends up undercutting everybody in retail. If Target has a widget for $6 Walmart will sell it for $5.50. Well I think the same thing happens with these big HVAC companies in the retail sector. And as far as pay goes you don't have to have a $40 per hour tech with 30 years exp. working on a 5 ton RTU. Do you? Maybe that's why their scale is low. I do know a couple of guys working at the big one that is making $34 an hour so maybe it what he's worth, IDK.
    I interview with one residential company several years ago and they wanted to give me $11 per hour and 20% of the ticket price. I feel like this is more of a rip off company than these guys that pay an average of $22 an hour for some 5 ton rooftop work. Oh well, I said my peace that has built up for years and I hope it urges some of you to think about the comment because there are guys with a couple of years in the field that read this board and might find retail works for them to get their feet wet and jump up to the big dogs like all of you and make $50 per hour with full paid medical and benefits. Oh and on a side note there must be a reason companies like Benner and CAS and the other one that recently was purchased had to close up and sell but these guys are still running strong.
    Be well my brothers.
    The way you "squash" the "bugs" of HVAC is to step on them, and encourage other good techs to step on them, too.

    That is the free labor market at work.
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

    RSES CMS, HVAC Electrical Specialist

    AOP Forum Rules:







  5. #239
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    up in the hizzy
    Posts
    1,280
    Quote Originally Posted by Tranes4you View Post
    You know I've been on this site almost daily (unregistered) for the past few years gaining knowledge and sometimes even laughing about how idiotic some you crybabys sound. Oh Lennox undersells their PM, oh CMS has some party that you have to make money to be in. I fully understand not every company is going to be for everybody. Some guys like residential, some like chillers and yes even some like retail. What I don't understand is how your negative experience leads you to believe nobody should ever work for one of these companies. Man up and say it wasn't for me. You can state the reasons why but every tech is not you, so bashing a company without actual proof is way out of line. As far as I know every body is in business to make money and as far as I know companies don't stay around long if they're robbing the customers or changing parts that don't need to be changed. I am pretty sure the retail sector would spread the word at the PRSM meetings about who was screwing who. As you know everybody ends up undercutting everybody in retail. If Target has a widget for $6 Walmart will sell it for $5.50. Well I think the same thing happens with these big HVAC companies in the retail sector. And as far as pay goes you don't have to have a $40 per hour tech with 30 years exp. working on a 5 ton RTU. Do you? Maybe that's why their scale is low. I do know a couple of guys working at the big one that is making $34 an hour so maybe it what he's worth, IDK.
    I interview with one residential company several years ago and they wanted to give me $11 per hour and 20% of the ticket price. I feel like this is more of a rip off company than these guys that pay an average of $22 an hour for some 5 ton rooftop work. Oh well, I said my peace that has built up for years and I hope it urges some of you to think about the comment because there are guys with a couple of years in the field that read this board and might find retail works for them to get their feet wet and jump up to the big dogs like all of you and make $50 per hour with full paid medical and benefits. Oh and on a side note there must be a reason companies like Benner and CAS and the other one that recently was purchased had to close up and sell but these guys are still running strong.
    Be well my brothers.
    I think you posted the same thing a while back using a different name.
    I used to do lots of retail HVAC, my employer lost all the accounts to Lennox NAS and others, they came in out of nowhere and under bid every contract, we wonder how can they make any money charging $60 to do an hour PM on a RTU including belts and filters? We now know how they make the money and for ethical and moral reasons we refuse to do the same.

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