06-24-2011, 08:00 PM
Maynard you are right, many of us current Lennox Techs are seeing this thread. While it does kind of hurt to be lumped in with the gauge less yahoos that make up Lennox NAS, I canít say they are wrong. If there was anything to defend on Lennox's behalf its that the paycheck hasnít bounced yet. I have worked with Lennox for over a year and watched as we replaced good parts, ran service calls without proper van stock, lied to customers, been told to just ďchange the filtersĒ, heck, Iíve seen bills for parts that we never even purchased let alone installed. I donít even bother to get too know my coworkers anymore, they leave/fired after a couple months anyway. Oh yeah, welcome Benner, half of you have already left this branch and good luck.
I for one have decided that I can no longer be associated with this company and still keep a clean conscience, and when I find a new job with a reputable company I will quit with no notice, no help, and no regret.
Maynard, the guys you are waiting for to help defend Lennox are just like me. We pretend to drink Dave's Kool-Aid, do his bidding, but the second we get an offer we will be gone.
06-24-2011, 11:25 PM
Maynard, I have been on here defending our company in the past and have found that it is just not worth my time or energy to even try to explain anything to half of these knuckleheads. I only know of one good perk Benner had and that was the insurance, but then again maybe if he wasn't paying everybodyís insurance he wouldnít have been going broke and have to even sell out at all. I don't know, just a thought. Not to worry fellas, you will have Obama care soon enough so you won't have to worry about being a productive part of society. Maybe the company you work for should hand out food stamps for your family as well... And from the jobs I have been on that the Benner guys were servicing hasn't been very impressive. Did they even have standards to go by at that company???
Maybe everybody dislikes NAS because we are the largest nationwide commercial retail service provide and they are worried. Worried just like the small town hardware shops were when Home Depot moved into the town, worried just like the "General Stores" were when Wal-Mart came to town. I don't know... maybe they're worried because their company maybe next to get bought out, if not by Lennox, maybe another... maybe their days of hiding are over. I do know we are setting the standard and the rest can either catch up or close down.
I love this site, it is a great source of information, if only its members werenít some cocky arrogant service techs it would probably be enjoyed by many others. But who wants to speak up when and say much of anything when there so many on here that bash companies because either the type of management there wasn't for them or they werenít the tech they said they were and were let go. I'm not going to get into a measure up contest on here but, if anyone wants to "man Up" and come out from hiding behind there screen name I'm sure the rest of you on here would find out there is more to their story of departure.
It doesnít matter where you work or what you do, just give it your best.
Have a great night.
06-24-2011, 11:30 PM
I left day of meeting dont even want them on my resume
06-25-2011, 12:00 AM
Trust me, the owner was NOT broke. If he was broke, it sure was not because he was paying everybody's insurance. There would be different reasons that are not right to get into on here. Just because we actually had an owner and a boss who actually cared about his employees, is NOT a bad thing.
Originally Posted by jdilks
Did we have standards to go by as a company? YES as a matter of fact we did. It was called, dont be a parts changer, be a service tech. Change parts that are truly bad. Dont change parts because they are rusty, dont change out pulleys and sheaves because they are SLIGHTLY glazed, there is no reason to dust the cabinet of every RTU, because that is a waste of customer time and money. So yes we did have standards, be productive and be benefitial to the customer.
No, I dont hate NAS because I am worried. I hate NAS because its a horse s*** company with horse s*** standards that does not give a crap about its employees. I hate NAS because they are ALL about LENNOX. They dont give a crap about the employees, they dont give a crap about the customers. During training our "elite" tech even told us, "if the customer doesnt like us quoting these parts, we dont care. We're Lennox! Nobody is bigger than us, they can find someone else then" I hate NAS because I get paid straight time to work on weekends. I hate NAS because EVERY single call that comes in is an emergency. Whether its a water leak, doors not closing on a cooler, or 1 RTU not working when the building has 20 units. It MUST be done on a Friday night, Saturday, whenever you get the call, you BETTER be jumping. Then when you get to the store and the manager looks at you like you're an idiot becuase the water leak has been going on for a month now and they didnt want someone there until Monday morning. So no, Im not worried at all about NAS.
If my next company gets bought out by Lennox, thats fine, I will just move right on down the line to a new company, just like I did this time. Except I probably will not give it as much of a chance.
"I do know we are setting the standard and the rest can either catch up or shut down" HAHAHAHA You are right. Lennox is setting the standard. But it surly is NOT the standard of QUALITY HVAC service. They are definately setting the standard in how to screw the customer front, back and sideways. I would like to know how you can be setting the standard when you try hiring a tech at 15-17 dollars an hour. I dont know about other areas, but around here, you WILL NOT get a good QUALITY experienced tech for less than 25 an hour. All you will get for 15 is a kid fresh out of school that is nothing more than a filter changer. Sure he will be able to do PM's using the "guide" with picture NAS gives you when you start. He will be able to sweep out the inside of the unit, and check off little boxes using his picture book saying if the part is in good fair or poor condition. Basically he will be able to do an equipment survey to change parts, not a PM. But I guess thats what Lennox wants, is parts changers, not service techs. Also, ask some of the old Benner customers what they think of Lennox. Because I can tell you in my area they are NOT too thrilled with what they have to deal with so far. The customer service is terrible. There is NO communication at all. I made the mistake of leaving my cell # with a manger at a call I was on when the change over first happened, and he called me DAILY multiple times for two weeks, becuase nobody would call him back with any info on his store. I would tell my manger, he wouldn't call him. He would call the office (which I dont even know the number to, I know sad) and he wouldnt get any answers. So, if NAS is setting the standard, then I need to find a new career choice.
And nope, there is no more story to my departure. Other than the fact that I actually have standards for myself. I actually have a conscience, and cant screw people. That is the story of my departure. I work for companies that actually give a crap about me. Anyone who truly thinks NAS is the best there is, needs to try working at a different company for a few weeks and then tell me how great they really are. Because I can tell you, I have worked at many different companies, some great, some not so much. And I can tell you NAS is BY FAR the worst and the most crooked of any I have worked at in my life.
06-25-2011, 02:51 AM
That was well said
06-25-2011, 10:43 AM
Originally Posted by tech93
(You see, tech93, we CAN agree on something!)
The concepts of standards and ethics and training, and diligence, etc, all start with the individual. If Lennox is not for you, then do everything you can do to find a better place, and Lennox will sink by its own weight. I can tell that if just 50% of what I have read in this thread is true, coupled with the one Lennox tech I talked with maybe six months ago, Lennox is most assuredly NOT for me.
Since healthcare was mentioned , let me touch on it.
One of the purposes of the government run plan being touted in some circles (and for which many hundreds of waivers for various companies and unions have been issued) is to make employers look at the removal of a healthcare cost on their balance sheets, and they will then dump the plans that they offer to their employees, thus FORCING the employees onto the government plan. This effect would creep like cancer through the economy as one plan offering after another is dumped by the private sector, and bingo, the big government plan swells ands swells until, voilŗ!, the government plan becomes a single payer for everyone except veterans and congress and unions. That means everyone else has been forced into the government plan because the private plans are no longer being offered.
So, when you hear someone say that "you can still keep your own plan, and your own doctor," you have to remember that person is only telling you a half-truth, in that you can keep these things until they no longer exist.
I feel for you guys who worked for Benner, I really do. As companies like Lennox try to figure out what they can use as a business model, there is always some turmoil. If illegal and unethical work is being done or charged for, they will be found out.
Keep working on making yourself the best tech you can be, and find that spot where you are a valued part of the company, and not a filter-slider or parts-replacer.
It's up to you.
[Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
2 Tim 3:16-17
RSES CMS, HVAC Electrical Specialist
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06-25-2011, 03:11 PM
Jdilks, I guess I am an arrogant, cocky, knucklehead. Iím just a company bashing loser, a fake tech and yeah, I am hiding behind IRONWRENCH because I have to feed my family. I have my priorities and hamburger helper means more to my kids then daddies point with another manager.
But you see Jdilks, I am one of the service technicians that live in the trenches day in and day out. I would like to believe that you are the rare great branch manager that truly cares about customers and techs. Then I looked at your past posts, you see Jim, I speak of my experience without laying personal blame or insults on anyone, you ratted on two of your old techs. If they were so lazy and dishonest why were they working for you, did you not check on their work?
You see everyone says it must just be bad local branch managers that create these branches. But if your customer calls up and complains about a bad experience with one of your techs can you just say ďyeah well that must just be a bad tech and were not all like thatĒ? Nope, those guys were your responsibility and if they fail you fail The pyramid of managers are supposed to watch below and make sure that there are no bad branch managers.
Yet they exist and many guys are coming out of the woodwork and telling their experiences. Now I am being respectful of everyoneís choice and opinion here. Some guys are a little too enthusiastic about bashing Lennox, some guys are just picking fights, Iím just being honest about my time here. Maybe what I say here will prevent some other guy from making a very wrong choice for himself. Now there has been many, many, many opinions here about Lennox, and the vast majority of them are negative. That should send up a red flag, then look carefully at Jdilks words and decide for yourself if this is the type of boss you would work well with.
just not worth my time or energy to even try to explain anything to half of these knuckleheads
maybe if he wasn't paying everybodyís insurance he wouldnít have been going broke and have to even sell out
you will have Obama care soon enough so you won't have to worry about being a productive part of society.
Maybe the company you work for should hand out food stamps for your family as well...
the jobs I have been on that the Benner guys were servicing hasn't been very impressive.
Did they even have standards to go by at that company???
we are setting the standard and the rest can either catch up or close down.
if only its members werenít some cocky arrogant service techs
"man Up" and come out from hiding
06-25-2011, 04:22 PM
Thanks for the good solid reply Ironwrench. Its people like you and I that can improve the way NAS operates. It is my hope that the corperate big wigs see this and they do another company wide survey. One that just doesn't highlight pro's. I want to be proud of where I work and again have fellow techs ask me for applications in supply houses. My outlook is that you can never be fired for doing the right thing for the customer and the unit. (Have never been unemployed) Fortunately, I work for what I see as a great branch with a good team. We got a Benner tech and you couldn't ask for a better person. The technicians are needed more than the managers and a technician with a conscious will never be let go. My intent here is to boost the public perceptions of NAS and silently build a better upper management structure. You cant blame the branch managers for the problems because they are told frequently if they dont make money they will be replaced. They are just trying to please. The "kool-aid" may be the problem here. I feel NAS has alot of potential but if people aren't willing to speak up ( without bashing or insulting ) nothing will change. There is a saying " If one person doesn't like you maybe it's them, If alot don't like you then you need to start looking at yourself" . I probally didn't say it right but you get the point. My question is, What do you feel needs to happen in order for all techs to be happy and for NAS to be a place where people WANT to work. That is the magic question. Thanks again for the good response Ironwrench.
06-25-2011, 05:53 PM
Another thing that puzzles me about NAS is the cult like references to a mythical character named Dave Lennox RIP, he is like the God of NAS and once in a while he makes a live appearance (hired actor) at some meeting and all most stand up and bow, its kind of freaky!!
06-25-2011, 05:58 PM
I am a former Benner tech now employed by Lennox . So far I have not been asked to do anything dishonest. The guys are great the branch manager is a really good guy. Benners problems were you cannot pay guys ot after 8 hours and make money.there were many calls were I worked 12 or 13 hours and actual time on the job was 8 hours and the rest was paid travel time. To Jdilks coments "thanks for welcoming us". As for the guys that say we are just filter changers . Lennox techs just helped a customer who have been having trouble with a system that had not worked right in over the 4 years that they had been in the building. We do not do Pm s at this location because the management company already has a Hvac contactor . I know the name and have some friends that work for them, so we will leave them out of this .When we were done the customers response was "that is the first time in that we have been in this space that we have felt air come out of the vents " Helps when you put the right size belt on and program the system. But then again it was a Trane system " the only thing that stops a trane is a trane"
06-25-2011, 06:01 PM
May I give you two cents on that question? I feel that the answers are universal, and go beyond NAS.
Originally Posted by maynard
In order for ANY place to be a place where you want to stay and grow, there are some basic human needs (not to go all Maslow on you) that are common to any employment dynamic.
Does the tech believe that the Company views him as a valued member of an ethically responsible team?
Often, and employee feels like an undervalued, easily replaceable cog in a machine that is willing to skirt, if not trample upon, ideas of truthfulness and fidelity. This leads to despair and frustration, and an erosion of how ethically the employee will tend to treat the employer, and not just the client. This is dangerous and costly.
Is the compensation in the upper or lower percentile of techs who perform similar jobs?
In commercial retail, for example, there is a seeming race to the bottom of the rate card. The service broker (be it Lennox, First, Comfort, etc) is another plate at the table, and the idea is to offer the client corporation the lowest possible cost to achieve the needed goals. As a result, there is often NO in-house or outside training, little insurance, lower markups and a lot of "busy work," such as the notion that putting guages on during most PM visits is a good thing. I can tell you that it is not, particularly when only pressure readings are being recorded. Pay the tech well, and treat him like you want him to be constantly improving his craft, and often, he will. Ask him to do a lot of busy work and nonsense, and he probably won't improve.
Does the company strive to improve its reputation among both clients AND the employees?
It's a bad thing when the employee believes that the company is content to be the low price, low quality leader in any field. It is much more satisfying to be known as the cost-saving, high skilled, responsive company that looks after its workforce as well as its clients.
I don't have time to sit and write a book on this, but this should be enough to get your started as you approach this issue. That said, this has to be a top-down approach, or there is a risk of speaking up to an unwelcoming upper management audience. That risk is obvious.
[Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
2 Tim 3:16-17
RSES CMS, HVAC Electrical Specialist
AOP Forum Rules:
06-25-2011, 10:44 PM
Maynard, I am glad you are so enthusiastic about making changes in this origination. 6 months ago I was just like you, but time changes everyone. You see after watching my coworkers/friends beaten into the ground by a greedy workaholic manager I sort of gave up. There are so many examples I could flood this site with that it almost makes me cry, unfortunately they are too specific and would lead to who I was. All of my friends left and were replaced by the $13 hr trainees that donít know superheat. You know the type, wide eyed and scared of electricity, we all started somewhere but we all had help along the way and I canít help all of these guys all of the time. Ď
I have spoken with my manager, the elite techs, the regional manager, and best I ever got was some nods and an explanation of how we do it at Lennox. Change isnít easy and Iím glad you have decided to do it, good for you.
Me and my family are done with it. I canít give them 60 hrs a week, on call every night and every weekend anymore. How am I supposed to be a good husband and father? Iím sorry Maynard but this isnít an us situation, I mentioned priorities in my last post and Iím way off track on mine. Iím done with it but I will give this advice from the inside if Lennox ever wanted to be a good company with good techs.
#1 get rid of the tech ratings, it breeds contempt in the ranks, we arenít cattle and donít like you lining us up every month to parade us around.
#2 Understand that this is an up and down industry, not every job can you make money. Not every month can we make your expected profits. Sometimes things donít go as planned and we fall behind. STOP PUSHING US TO BE FASTER AND CHEAPER WHILE MAKING MORE MONEY
#3 Enforce a timeline for every P.M., stop leaving it up to greedy ,managers to start hacking away at the checklist for a good P.M. I canít go through a unit accurately in 10 minutes. Bad P.M. = service call itís kind of a cycle
#4 STOP FILLING CUSTOMERS WITH UNREASONABLE EXPECTIONS. I am one guy, I canít be two places at once, please donít tell a customer I will be onsite in 2 hrs when I am stuck on another call that is 4 hrs away. If you wonít stock my van donít be surprised that I had to run for parts. Learn what an emergency is. We donít do industrial processing, we work on comfort cooling and small refer cases, non critical equipment. I have worked 24 hrs straight to replace production chillers, thatís an emergency, not a home depot tool area at 79 degrees
#5 THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT ONE Donít let a manufacturing company run a service company. Two different worlds; philosophy, work ethic, timelines, profit margins, skill sets, are all different and one cant set one company mold and expect it to work.
In the end Iím just plain done with it. I think I have an offer coming after a good interview last week, if I get the job then I will give Lennox the same professional courtesy that they have offered me. I will not concern myself with their plans or needs, they didnít mind screwing up my needs or plans, one short call explaining that I expect to never hear from them again, and that the van is at location x with the keys in it.
06-26-2011, 12:28 AM
GOOD FOR YOU IRONWRENCH.I WISH YOU AND YOUR FAMILY THE BEST.